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Lapua bullets and Vihtavuori powder

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    Posted: November/16/2007 at 20:54
It seems that very few people reload with Lapua bullets and Vihtavuori powder here in States, so information in languages other than Swedish and Finnish seems to be scarce.

So, I wonder, had anyone here had any experience reloading 308 Win with Lapua brass, Lapua 11gram (170grain) LockBase bullets AND Vihtavuori N550 powder?

N150 is single-base and it's all relatively simple(in terms of getting used to its behaviour/performance).

N550 is double-base and is supposedly designed to provide most consistent performance under varying environmental conditions (sort of like Hodgdon Extreme series of powders).
But interestingly enough, in 308 Win, Vihtavuori manual suggests that the accuracy load for 170 grain LockBase is the one with N150 - 45,5grain at 2734fps MV from 24" 1:12" twist barrel.

I have not tried the N550 yet, so does anyone have experience with N550 in 308 using 170gr LockBase?
What about N550 in 308 with 185grain Scenar or D46?

Thanks!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blackbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2007 at 21:51
I use VV N540 in a 6BR, with 105-108 missles for 600 + yard shooting. I can get more fps than Varget. Lapua pills in 6 mm. are so consistant in weight, that I would venture to say the .30 cal's probably are. If you go to benchrest.com, you will probably get a lot of responses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 05:55

I have use .308 Lapua brass now as a SOP.

I load them for a Remington .308 w/ a 1 in 12 twist barrel, with either 168gr. SMK's or 155 Lapua Scenar's. Both bullets get loaded with Varget.

 

Both bullets are very accurate and will shoot sub moa.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 06:21
im fairly certain you can still buy the vv reloading manual,i had one a few years ago and i lost it somewhere. it  wasnt much of anything it was free from the the company but it had enough info in english no less to do a lot of reloading.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 08:19

I've used 64 pounds each,of N150, N550, N160 and N560 powder since 2001.

 

I like the 550 series for 175 grain bullets in gas guns, the 150 series for 175 grain bullets in bolt guns, and the 160/560 series for heavy bullets in 22 cal and 30 cal in bolt rifles.

 

It's decent powder with a larger velocity swing than the Hodgdens stuff and a huge knee in the velocity curve below 50 cegrees F.  I do find the accuracy slightly better with VV powders but not enough to keep a data book with 10 degree temp swings when the H series powders offer an advantage.

 

Think of VV powders as teh EU equivilent of the IIMR series.

 

I have not had a need to invest in the Lapua bullets as yet.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 08:40
Mr. Mike, what's your powder of choice for a 168gr. SMK in a .308 bolt gun?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 09:37

CT,

I never found a use for 168's in a 308 so I can't help on that account.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pooreyes-2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 10:03

 

    Now you all have me thinking about reloading.I have been looking for a round for my new 308. As of now I am shooting the Winchester ballistic silvertip 168gr.

   What do you all think about 150gr bullet for deer at long and short range? Or should I stay with the 168gr?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 10:43

44 thru 45.5 grs. varget with 168s is a very popular load. around 2650

155 gr A-max work well and with 47 grs varget will get you into the 2900 fps 308 in 26 in barrels.

168's are best out to 500, and as load that will work well across a series of guns, (make one load that works well for 5-6 308's) it is good to standardize.

if you are limited to 308 past 600 yds, something in the 155,175 gr is the most popular.

LIke ballistic coefficients, most of the accuracy and velocity results are done with rifles having little resemblence to reality guns, and all figures should be taken with a grain of salt, and verified in the particularities of your gun.



Edited by Dale Clifford
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pooreyes-2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 10:52

 

 

    Thanks for the info Dale.

 Also I am sorry I high jacked this thread. Dale the 155 a-max is the Hornady bullet? I am looking at them now and a reloader. What do you think about this reloader

 

< =https://www.hornady.com/shop/ method=get>< = value=928b4b463d43fb1d0cce725cdbda8451 name=ps_session> < = value=shop/cart name=page> < = value=cartAdd name=func> < = value=1 name=quantity> < = value=499 name=product_id>
LOCK-N-LOAD AP NSP
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< =https://www.hornady.com/shop/ method=get>< = value=928b4b463d43fb1d0cce725cdbda8451 name=ps_session> < = value=shop/cart name=page> < = value=cartAdd name=func> < = value=1 name=quantity> < = value=1458 name=product_id>
LOCK-N-LOAD AP DUST COVER
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An automatic, five-station press, Hornady’s Lock-N-Load AP™ lets us switch dies, powder dies, check dies, bullet seaters or crimp dies without changing the whole die head. Change one die or all with one quick twist. The Lock-N-Load AP comes complete with everything listed here, as well as extra bushings.

FEATURES INCLUDE:

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*Note: Shell plates have been re-designed for case ejection. We added a chamfer that allows cases to move easily in and out of the shell plate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 11:29

gonna take a lot for this, but-- anything other than dillon is erector sets, gadgets to fiddle with, things that are not timed right, inability to improvise within the reloading cycle,

155 are hornady-- lot of controversy on bullet performance here and elsewhere, especially using "target" bullets. Usually the need to go to a lighter wt. in order to maintain velocity with downrange energy retention, would indicate a "bigger" gun. but I get about 2850 out of the 155 in 308s 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 13:36

In the distance I can hear a virtual lynch mob forming.................................................

 

I own a pair of Dillon 550's and find them to be very good machines which have given me many years and countless thousands of rounds of good service.  On the advise of a good and trusted friend who developed precision ammunition for sale to the public, I bought a Projector press.  the dillon doesn't get much use any more.

 

On the 168 grain Winchester ballistic silverttips.  Tried a case of that stuff to see what it was capable of.  It's 1 moa accurate at 1000 yards, and better than that inside 500 yards.  Don't know what they did but they did it right.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 14:30
whats projectors going for these days, mike?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 16:24
i still say its hard to be an rcbs for the money and the simple fact that you are the quality control when it comes to powder charges and for an amatuer its another fail safe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 17:21
The rockchucker or rock chucker bullet swager (were rcbs name came from and really wasn't done by the current company)  isn't that bad, its the stuff the company did later,and after they become blount. you should have had the chance to play with some of their linear progressive metallic stuff about 15 or so years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 18:43

Dale,

I have about $600.00 in this rig, but I bought about every concievable option and accessory they had when I got it.

And no.......my Dillons are not for sale!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2007 at 19:57
How did you know??? (I was gonna ask that)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spreader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2007 at 03:29
Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:

I've used 64 pounds each,of N150, N550, N160 and N560 powder since 2001.

 

I like the 550 series for 175 grain bullets in gas guns, the 150 series for 175 grain bullets in bolt guns, and the 160/560 series for heavy bullets in 22 cal and 30 cal in bolt rifles.

 

It's decent powder with a larger velocity swing than the Hodgdens stuff and a huge knee in the velocity curve below 50 cegrees F.  I do find the accuracy slightly better with VV powders but not enough to keep a data book with 10 degree temp swings when the H series powders offer an advantage.

 

Think of VV powders as teh EU equivilent of the IIMR series.

 

I have not had a need to invest in the Lapua bullets as yet.



Mike,

Just to clarify, when you say this powder has larger velocity swing due to temperature change, which one you're referring to, the 100-series or the 500-series? If that's what you see with 500-series, then it's discouraging, I'm better off with Hodgdon Extreme series then. Although I always have this thought at the back of my mind "Hm, Hodgdon is essentially a blend of powders, since they don't actually manufacture the powder itself, so how can I be sure that it will be consistent from lot to lot?"

I'm relatively new to reloading, so I actually quickly found out for myself that I don't really like the quality of Sierra bullets and cases made by Remington,  and Winchester - too many inconsistencies. Too much prep work needed before I can do anything. Lapua cases are very uniformly sized, primer holes are drilled, not punched (so no need for deburring) and necks are annealed - saves me a lot of time that I otherwise have to waste on preparation of Remington or Winchester cases. With Lapua bullets it's the same story essentially. While the Sierra MatchKing are overall high quality, consistency is still not as good as that of Lapua. But then again, maybe it's because I measure every case and bullet with my Etalon calipers and micrometer. On a less accurate calipers/micrometers the inconsistency may go unnoticed. I still intend to use both types of bullets, since the pricing difference makes it perfectly sensible to practice with Sierra at lower cost.

Combination of Vihtavuori + Lapua brass + Lapua bullets is appealing though, since it's the same company. It's under two different roofs, but under same management essentially, so they're in best position for synergy. In US bullet manufacturers don't make powder (and often don't make cases), and powder manufacturers definitely don't make either the bullets or the cases.

By the way, out of curiosity, do you use different primers for loads for your bolt guns vs. your M1A? I'm somewhat partial to CCI, they seem to be very consistent and I really like their "strip" system, makes it easy to prime many cases quickly.






Edited by spreader
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2007 at 08:28
what gun you shootin the good stuff in spreader? most store boughts can't see the difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike McDonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2007 at 08:29

, the 100-series or the 500-series?

The 100 series swings less than the 500 series.  The 500 series is a double based blend of nitrogliceryn and nitrocellulose while the 100 series is a single based powder.  Both have a steep knee in the curve below 50 degrees F.

 

, Hodgdon is essentially a blend of powders

All cannister powders are a blend of powders to arrive at a specific burn rate.

When reloading, note lot numbers in your load book.  When changing lots always work back to your velocity or charge weight.

Found that VV, Hodgden, Alliant all have inconsistancies from lot to lot.  Had 4 lots of Re-15 that were exact to charge weight -vs- velocity then 2 lots that were not.

It's just something to account for in the process, and easily done.

 

. Too much prep work needed before I can do anything.

Now is where it really does become personal preference and individual technique.

One of the worlds top shooters switched from Lapua to Winchester as he found no signifigant gain in accuracy over standard Winchester brass.

If you are shooting benchrest, you'll only have 20 or so match cases to load, all carefully prepared and numbered.

If you're going to shoot anything else you may well find that case prep is a very fun thing, and relaxing, but past proper sizing to your rifles chamber and trimming to a uniform langth, all those things we all want to do yield almost no real world  gain for the effort.  New reloaders all want to be really anal about brass prep, we all did it, and then you find that the very simple things result in best performance.

For example, I have gone from owning and using every brass and bullet prep tool on earth to doing the following for loads I compete with;

Weigh brass and segregate into lots ( bought in lots of 1000 and separated)

After you go through 2-3000 rounds you have 4 usefull lots of brass.

F/L resize when new.

Trim to uniform length

Uniform primer pockets

Sierra bullets for comp get uniformed and weighed.  This gains just enough consistancy to be noticed past 600 yards.  I still use non-prepped bullets for practice, the gain is so slight.

All powder charges are weighed after a charge weight is deternined.

New powder lots are tested when purchased.

Purchase primers in bulk.  Buy 8,000 primers for your new barrel, all same lot.

That ends that hassle.  New barrel, new primers.

I use scale check weights.

 

.....use different primers for loads for your bolt guns vs. your M1A?

 

No, I use Federal 210 primers  ( not match) in all loads except ball powder, then I use WLR primers.  This has proven to be a consistant recipe for sucessfull load development that I've adhered to for 20 years.

 

The overall sumary is that I try to uncomplicate a process that can become overly complex just because we want it to.  Results show that less can really be more.

 

 

 

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