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SWFA Scope Scale Discussion Thread (2008) |
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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If I were creating this scale, I would just use the first 3 criteria only. The other 3 are really subjective and might be better utilized within the forum. I.e. doesn't take much reading to find that most folks here feel the 4200 3-9X40 is a great deal or that certain companies have less than desirable cs. Does this make any sense?
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take em!
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mike650
Optics God Joined: May/14/2006 Location: West of Rockies Status: Offline Points: 14569 |
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It'd be interesting to see what happens just as a test. I think #6 alone creates a shift. Bottom line, thank you Chris for taking the time to do the scales, I really appreciate it and will continue to refer to it!!! Edited by mike650 - February/19/2008 at 22:54 |
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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antleraddiction
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/27/2008 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 137 |
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I'm wondering if #3 should not be removed from the scale............Who tested the scopes to determine "How do they with stand the test of time"? Some of these scopes just came out
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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cf2 beat the hell out of them on the pavement! lol
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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I think #3 is valid........ this forum along with SWFA are able to let us know about issues. And the newer releases from solid companies get the benefit until something changes.
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take em!
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HOLLOWPOINT
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/24/2007 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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Thank you for that honest and very informative answer!
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Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good. Thomas Paine
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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LOL, that is a good one, Chris.
Thanks for the earlier response. I look forward to sales figures in another year to see if there is a change.
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medic52
Optics Professional Joined: October/05/2006 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 893 |
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Chris, Thank you for the scale and info. I appreciate your efforts and time. I have made purchases from SWFA for different scopes that range from a 2 to 6 on your new scale. All 6 items that make up your list is also on my list when I make a decision to purchase a scope, however due to your informational site here, the people who post their opinions and experience help me make my decisions when it comes time to give you my credit card number. So far all my purchases have been exactly what I expected from the scopes I choose. SWFA's customer service people that I have dealt with all have been GREAT. I am in the process of trying to decide on my next scope today, decision has not been made yet.
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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." G.K. Chesterton
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
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In many cases we are directly involved in the development and testing of new products from many of the manufacturers. In the case of the 6500, we know how long it has been under development and that it is coming from the same factory that produces the 4200.]
Exactly!! Durability is a given for certain brands. For instance when Ford comes out with a new truck, it would be a reasonable deduction that it will be as durable or more durable than previous offerings. If new products are not with standing the test of time then it will be noted and their placement adjusted.
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turkeytalker
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/20/2008 Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Are these optics exclusively the 2008 models or are they mixed, ie Millett has a new scope generation, but they still have the Gold, silver, and lightning models?
How's the Burris Timberline look, especially with the 32mm objective? Looks like the Short Mag under a new label, but with a good price.
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Texas
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/11/2008 Location: Texas, USA Status: Offline Points: 211 |
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I don't see the Kahles Helia CS on this list or the 2007 version. I have a CL yet to be mounted, and it seems wonderful looking through it comparing to my Leupolds. But, since I ordered a CS of the Sample List yesterday, I am left wondering how it rates relative to the CL line? I expect the CS to be delivered tomorrow so I can compare myself - but I want to know what those with more experience think also.
Thanks to Chris for the new ratings list, and thanks for hosting this board, because I get a lot from reading it daily. I think it may be addictive!
Tom
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Black Squirrel
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/16/2006 Status: Offline Points: 47 |
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Wow. Nice list. Thank you for compiling it. It serves as a great guide for many people who cannot sit there and actually handle each of these side by side. That is an advantage someone from SWFA has over a regular Joe not in the optics business.
I've been mostly a lurker around here and I always check out these rating threads. I'm going to add my $0.02. I think most of the controversy revolves around one simple fact. The vast, vast majority of people want an all-out optical clarity/brightness scale. It's almost always the reason why a scope ranking is criticized. When you factor in customer service and features, those two factors can easily bump a scope up or down a position, maybe even two positions. I've handled a lot of scopes, but not all of those on the list. Handling is a whole lot differnet from really spending time with one to compare side by side. I've found that a cursory inspection of a scope is simply not enough. Looking through one at the range that someone else has, checking one out a gun shop. Not enough. Until you own them or have lots of time to sit side by side and compare against various factors, it's difficult to say which one is optically better when two scopes are very close contenders. From the average amount I know, I think the ratings are pretty good. So what if something is a little high or a little low. At least you know which class it is in. If I had to criticize it, I would criticize the Trijicon ranking. Owning a few and others above and below it on the ranking scale, I can say that the glass is better than the ranking shows. Also, their customer service is nothing short of spectacular in my experience. They had my scope back in 5 business days! WOW. But, if features and specs were weighted in, it could lower the ranking. They don't shine (pardon the pun) in areas like adjustability and other features. They are fairly plain scopes whose attraction is the illumination system. Judging by what the original post says, according to Chris' reasoning, this isn't an optical quality only scale, nor a fan-boy scale (haha). It's a general purpose scale. You can tell it is objective by the placement of their own scope the Super Sniper. Personally, I think that is better. I'd trade a tiny difference in optical quality for a company that will back me up 100% with no hassle warranty service. That is worth 1-2% worse glass if you have to compromise. Sometimes, the difference is so small it's really not even practical. Nothing is worse than buying a scope only to have something go wrong, and something can go wrong on even the most high dollar scope, only to have the manufacturer jerk you around not wanting to fix it, or taking it in for repair and waiting over 3 months or more to get it back. If that happens, and it will happen the more scopes you own and the longer you own them, you will no longer care about that 1% optical edge that you can barely notice anyway. Others will trade glass and customer service for a ton of features or capabilities. Given all of that, a general purpose scale is fine. Perhaps someday, if someone is generous enough to do it, an all optical quality scale could be made. That wouldn't eliminate the controversies as people will then argue over glass quality, but it eliminate most of them due to the fact that this scale lowers or increases scopes based on factors other than optical quality. |
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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i think with very few exceptions/disagreements - it looks very good.
nice job.
J
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
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Kahles is kinda confusing with their models. The CS is the same as the C with the addition of the MultiZero feature. The CBX (also not on the list) is the same as the CSX except in FFP (first focal plane). I left them both off in an attempt to make the list less cluttered.
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
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The list is current production not just new products for 2008.
The Burris Timberline is the Short Mag but made in the Philippines in the same factory that is making the current Fullfield II line. We added it beside the Fullfield II under the assumption that they will be of similar quality.
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mwyates
Optics Master Joined: June/15/2004 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 1196 |
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What I'd like to see is a scale with separate ratings for each area. For example, the Kahles CL might be a 9 in optical quality and specifications and a 3 in customer service and special features. That would be a lot of work but it would be a lot more meaninful. That way we could evaluate according to our own preferences. Most of y'all would have optical quality as by far most important, but I'd put it no higher than third, behind durability and specifications.
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No man on his deathbed ever said "I wish I'd made more money".
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SAKO75
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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im sorry but i have owned diavari's with lotutec (2.5-10x50), S&B KLASSIK 3-12x42, Klassik 1.5-6x42, Zenith 1.5-6x42, Diavari 3-9x42 1", fixed 6x42 S&B, and now a Swarovski PH 2.5-10x42...in no way would I rate any above or below the other except the swaro is lighter than most but suffers in eye relief somewhat... optically it is up there with the others and I prefer it to the S&B's...
they all show severe chromatic abberations
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maxdun
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/10/2008 Location: redmond wa Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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I have been shooting for a number of years but just got into rifles. I would like to take the time to thank this forum and Chris for putting these an order that I can understand and put to use.
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crispycritter
Optics Apprentice Joined: July/30/2004 Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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+1
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Davis
Optics GrassHopper Joined: August/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 26 |
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I'm interested that the Aetec came in higher than the FFII.
Davis |
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