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Mildot reticles for prairie dogs ? |
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Hammer1
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/23/2008 Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Posted: February/23/2008 at 13:16 |
Where does a mildot reticle fit into the prairie dog scene ?
Some claim the mildot reticle covers up too much of the target, epsecially when only a dog head is peaking out of a hole.
Some say that the mildot reticle requires a dedicated user. That the casual user who switches to other reticles frequently during the day will mess up with the mildot causing misses.
Thoughts ?
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Duce
Optics Master Joined: September/19/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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It has worked good for me in the past years , you do have to know how to use the mil-dot, if you are not familiar with it I would recommend www.mil-dot.com and the mil-dot master
For me it saves ammo and provided quick hold over at distance.
Duce
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Duce
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Hammer, I use a mil dot reticle for shooting prairie dogs and it works o.k. I have one in a Nightforce scope, and their version of the mil dot is very thin with "open" circles with tiny dots inside instead of solid dots. Therefore, it doesn't cover up much of the target. So, from an aiming standpoint, whether or not it will work well depends on whose version of the mil dot you're using. I also use the IOR MP8 and the Nightforce NP-R1, which are both also mil based reticles, and they have thin hash marks instead of dots.
I have found it to be very difficult, if not nearly impossible to use a mil dot reticle for RANGING prairie dogs, though. First of all, prairie dogs vary in height from about 5" to maybe 10" tall, which is really too small and varied to effectively use the mil system. In addition, they aren't always standing straight up, and they may be partially concealed by their mounds, so it's incredibly difficult to get a fix on an accurate, known target dimension. Since they are generally found in very open, featureless prairie, even using an electronic rangefinder is difficult, because it's hard to find an object large enough to get a good reading on. I therefore use a rangefinder to get a reading on known landscape features and estimate distance to my targets from there. Then I use the mil dot for holdover to known drop values of my rifle and the horizontal mil dots to compensate for wind. I don't dial in my firing solutions, because they seldom all line up at the same distance and there are usually hundreds of rats in view to shoot at at all distances from near to far, so I would spend way too much time dialing and not enough time shooting. I've tried dialing in the past and found my hit % wasn't any better than firing for effect, spotting my shot impact, and correcting using the reticle stadia marks. After awhile, you start to get calibrated to the distances to targets based on land features, the relative size of PDs in view, and the degree of mirage. The angle the mirage appears to be moving will also tell you roughly what the wind is doing near your target.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Duce
Optics Master Joined: September/19/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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I agree with RifleDude on the ranging pdogs, I use a laser range finder and use the mil-dot for hold over with my rifle sighted in at 200 or 300 yards depending on where I am shooting and which rifle I use. Most of the time I set up on a high point where I can see the prairie dog towns and range them then go for the targets of opportunity.
Duce
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Duce
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3_tens
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/08/2007 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7853 |
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Both the leup and the Burris bplex systems work well with the .223 and 22-250. I have found them both very speedy when used with a laser. It is much simpler for me to interpolate than with the mil dot. Especially when changing rifles of different calibers during the day. If I were more proficient with the mil dot it probably would not matter.
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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.
Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow Now the rules have changed again. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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I've used the Burris Bplex and Bmildot reticles extensively on PD's as 3 of my buddies have 5 different rifles scoped with them. They work fine, but my complaint about them is the reticle and dots are too large for my taste. I like a much finer reticle, because sometimes they offer a very small target when they're playing peekaboo with only the tops of their heads above their mounds, especially at longer distances. Since PD shooting isn't predominantly done in low light, I want my reticles to be as fine as absolutely possible.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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medic52
Optics Professional Joined: October/05/2006 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 893 |
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Rifledude and duce |
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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." G.K. Chesterton
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3_tens
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/08/2007 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7853 |
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I do not have that much problem, Rarely are the shots at a distance that falls directly under the dot. Then there is the correction for the wind. B-dots are for speed and not for precision. For precision twist the knobs. The dot on Burris and Swaro is not like the big circle in the Nikon, They do not obscure as much.. |
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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.
Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow Now the rules have changed again. |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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heavy duty dog hunting is best done with an arsenal. use several guns for different distances optimized for the ballastics of that distance. if you get a 75% kill ratio on any day thats pretty good. determing if it was done or not done on the basis of a reticle is like taking a knife to a gun fight. having every gun optimized, is certainly fun and one way of doing it, but so is trying to make something work or seeing how well it doesn't work (ie. black powder pistols). A guy I know in southern utah uses black powder, bowling balls and old morter cannons. (hes also the curator of a natural history museum, but we don't kid him about that).
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3_tens
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/08/2007 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7853 |
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That sounds like fun. I am always getting bowling balls out of repos.
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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.
Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow Now the rules have changed again. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Amen, brother! That and the fact that barrels can get pretty hot and I don't like abusing my rifles any more than necessary is why I generally take 5 rifles and plenty of ammo with me every time I go.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Duce
Optics Master Joined: September/19/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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I agree I take everything from .17 cal to a 30-06 and set up on a high point ( as high as they get in Ks or Neb) range everything with the laser then go after them. I doubt I have every had as good as a 75 % kill ratio but I go for some long shots.
Duce
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Duce
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Me either. 75% would be a banner day and would require the wind to give me a break. The ever-changing wind is always the issue, as I have at least 5X more left and right as up and down misses.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Duce
Optics Master Joined: September/19/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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I go along with the left and right thing on pdogs. I have been a pilot and sailor and can probably read wind as well as the next guy but winds in Kansas can be very frustrating. I used to have some M-118 long range ammo from when it was dirt cheap and I used up a lot of it on long shots at pdogs. I keep several rifles on the bench too so the barrels dint get too hot, a long weekend in dog towns can go through 1500 to 2000 rounds but it sure is fun and challenging shooting. The farmers in Kansas and Nebraska dint think we are getting rid of enough of them and have been trying blowing up towns with propane and poison but its like trying to ride New York City of rats they are back next year.
Another fun shooting thing we have done in the past is position ourselves downstream of dumps during flood season and shoot river rats. We used to do this near Kansas city when I was young we shot from a favorite bridge ( illegal to shoot from a road in Kansas now). My buddy and I would each buy a 500 round brick of 22 long rifle ammo and go through it in a few hours and wipe out a lot of big rats. I even had cops stop and barrow my rifle to shoot a few themselves. That would never happen in todays world we would probably get the swat team called out on us, times change.
Duce
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Duce
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3_tens
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/08/2007 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7853 |
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Have you ever tried one of the Kestrel wind meters. I have been looking at them.
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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.
Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow Now the rules have changed again. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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I haven't but one of the main problems you'll run into is that the wind is often doing something entirely different where the target is than what it's doing near your shooting position. This is especially true if you're attempting shots at the extreme distances I often shoot at, and I'm betting Duce does as well.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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3_tens
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/08/2007 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7853 |
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I have never been where you could get that many shots.
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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.
Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow Now the rules have changed again. |
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Duce
Optics Master Joined: September/19/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1231 |
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RifleDude is right I have a wind meter from my sailing days but wind may change as close as 50 yards away from you. One of the best ways to look at wind is to look across water watch the wind effect. You can see calm areas and puffs and direction changes all at the same time. A heavy bullet like the 168 gr match in a 308 or 30-06 helps at distances over two or three hundred yards where a light bullet (under 50 gr) will blow all over the place but when you get over 300 yards, for me anyway wind is the biggest problem.
Duce
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Duce
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3_tens
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/08/2007 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7853 |
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Felt I did good shooting 50 gr btips on a 223 out to 400 then they start moving around and over 600 they were everywhere. I have only used .223 an a 22-250. the 22-250 was an 1885 Winchester and it has terrible trigger pull.
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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.
Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow Now the rules have changed again. |
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mercenary1947
Optics Master ** Joined: April/02/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1392 |
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Yea the wing guage is'nt much help at long distances . It's mostly an acquired knowledge of watching leaves blow or grass movement and then at best 50% luck that you're right . I live in the east and don't get extremely long shots on P-Dogs .... groudhogs and believe it or not squirrels to test my abilities are mostly shot by me . I'd love to prarie dog or coyote hunt one day .... ! I use a 30-06 150's or the acceleraters = 223 caliber ... 30-06 rounds .
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