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Too much force for FL resizing .308

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Gil P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2012 at 23:06
Ill try putting it on thicker on the lower part of the case and let you know if that works. I will also try putting more lube into the FL sizing die body inner walls and see if that helps, I may not be putting enough in there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2012 at 23:14
1.  +1 to Budperm's comments on resizing.  There's no reason to full-length resize after the first firing, if you are only using the cases in one rifle. 
 
2.  I suggest that you get a Lee collet die, and see how that works.
 
3.  One other thought.  The studs in your wall, like chair legs and other supports, are meant to take pressure coming from a specific direction (and not from all directions).    
 
 


Edited by Longhunter - June/04/2012 at 23:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2012 at 23:22
Originally posted by Gil P. Gil P. wrote:

What kind of spray lube are you using?

Is there a way to measure my dies?


I've used Hornady One Shot, RCBS Case Slick, and Lyman Quick Spray, all with success.  Couldn't tell you which is better, as all have worked well.  i basically get whichever I find in stock in local gun stores.  I also tried Cabelas brand lanolin-based spray, and it didn't work worth a crap... had cases get stuck in dies using it.  So, I stick with petroleum-based lubes rather than lanolin- or wax-based.  The petroleum based lubes seem to be easier to apply with a thinner film.

The best way to measure your die dimensions is simply to measure the sized cases you're getting from it compared to other dies, factory ammo, and published SAAMI specs.  That will tell you where your case dimensions are within the tolerance range.
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Gil P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2012 at 00:10
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

BTW,
 
Why are you doing a FL resize?  Do you have more than one gun in that caliber?
I usually neck size only and take advantage of fire sizing the casing to custom fit your chamber.  I other words, firing it makes the casings size to the chamber.  Resizing the neck only provides proper bullet retention and the rest of the casing fits the chamber better.  Do this should improve accuracy.  This should only be used if you do not mix your ammo between guns.  I usually reload 5 to 7 times before annealing and doing a FL resize.
 


I thought FL resizing was just the way to reload. I do not have more than one gun in that caliber. "Do this should improve accuracy." Are you saying that neck sizing gives better accuracy over FL sizing? I can just back my die off to resize the neck couldnt I?
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Gil P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2012 at 00:12
Well, I think I solved my problem. My cases now size easily, thanks for all the help guys.

I used much more lube for the inside of the die body, I guess I took applying a "thin coat" too seriously, I am also using more lube for the cases themselves, especially near the lower portion (thanks Crosswire).

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Gil P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2012 at 00:15
stickbow46,

I dont think my size is a problem I thought I was getting pretty darn close to ripping the table out of the wall! Big Grin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2012 at 00:28
It just takes a little trial and error to get a feel for what's the right amount of lube.  I tend to overdo everything, so I have to consciously tell myself to not use so much lube.  Consequently, I had lots of neck and shoulder dents before 1000s of repetitions finally taught me how much was enough and I developed my own technique for spraying cases.   Sounds like you have the opposite tendency.  Glad you found the problem!
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Gil P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2012 at 00:43
Me too, im really glad it was something so simple! Now I  just need to figure out how to neck size with an FL die. Cool

Thanks for all the help everyone, this is an excellent forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2012 at 07:23
Just get a Lee neck sizing die, there cheap and as must dies can be used on other OEM presses.
 
With brass the more you make it move the faster it get hard.  Refered to as work hardened.  Annealing the brass will allow it to relax and it will be much easier to size.
 
If you neck size only, or most of the time, it should improve your accuracy due to most of the casing now fitting your action more snugly because it has been fire formed to your specific gun's chamber.  Tghat basically takes out most all side slop or wiggle in laymans terms.  Resizing the neck assures good bullet retention.  Some people also use a Lee collet die to crimp the casing top teh bullet to increase retention.  This is usually required for semi-autos and also used in extremwe condition hunting to asuere the bullets don't dislodge from casing during high vibration or impact conditions.
 
I usually reload about 5 times neck sizing only before I FL resize.  I always anneal before I FL size as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crosswire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2012 at 08:23
Glad it helped, good luck!
 
Now, neck sizing;  NS can be helpful but only slightly at its best; it's very over rated for both accuracy and case life, especially so for factory rifles.   Many people and groups - including Sierra - find best accuracy with properly FL sized cases.  Most cases die from neck splits and conventional neck dies work the necks fully as much as FL dies. 
 
Attempts to NS by backing out an FL sizer is problematic; if the case body contacts the die wall we are NOT just neck sizing and it can induce chambering problems.  Attempts to NS cases with a lot of body taper - .30-30 -  often works okay but on cases like the .308 which has little body taper it's much less likely to work very well.


Edited by Crosswire - June/06/2012 at 08:49
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Gil P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2012 at 01:37
Crosswire,

I may just try neck sizing out of curiosity to check the accuracy vs FL sizing (a Lee collet die is only around 20 dollars anyway). Also since im not using a competition type FL die, I wonder if NS will produce a noticeable improvement in accuracy. Have you ever tested this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crosswire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2012 at 16:42
"Also since im not using a competition type FL die, I wonder if NS will produce a noticeable improvement in accuracy. Have you ever tested this? "
 
I've tested it in several rifles, any differences were slight and variable.  A lot matters about the individual rifle (chamber) and, maybe, the load.  Mostly what I've learned is it has to be tried to see if it makes any difference at all and, if so, which way.  I believe those who are quite positive they know if FL or NS is 'best' have read a lot but haven't tried it both ways in many rifles.  And, sometimes it seems some guys try other changes along with NS so they really don't know what made the difference they may see!  Anyway, it won't make an honest 1 MOA rifle into an honest 1/2 MOA shooter.
 
Somewhat the same variables about so called "competition dies."  The sizers really don't make much difference and only Forster's and Redding's comp seaters have a full body sleeve that maintains bullet alignment to the case before seating begins; they are quite good BUT if you have a conventional seater that is on the right side of the tolerance ranges AND it gets used properly no other seater can add anything. 
 
We can't seat straight in bent-neck cases and standard expander balls tend to bend necks, so does seating in a case with an excessively small neck, about 1 thou of neck 'tension' seems best for plenty of bullet grip and low runout.  What I've learned to prefer is the Lee Collet Neck Sizer in conjunction with a body die; that combo produces good ammo either NS or "FL" sized.  With skim turned necks those dies give me the lowest average neck runout with the least difficulty I've found.  Even then the down range results aren't dramatically better than what I can get using conventional dies but low bullet runout makes me feel better so I do it, at least for my better rifles. 
 
Thing is, unless you have a true cartridge concentricity gage you will never know how much runout you have nor where it comes in your loading practice.   Mine is a shop made rig that I really like but IF I had to use a commercial type it would be a Sinclair (with the lower priced dial indicator).


Edited by Crosswire - June/07/2012 at 17:00
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Gil P. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil P. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2012 at 21:07
By going through using a body die and collet die, you are avoiding the expander ball which bends necks. So the expander ball expands the neck as the case is coming out of the die. I guess there is nothing left do but see for myself which method works the best. Thanks for the great post!
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