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Chris -TELL ME about SCHMIDT&BENDER

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tbone1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbone1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 12:23

Rusty, good point.  I have to admit that suprised me as well.  I have read these reviews for several years now and always liked the way they tested their optics.  I am one of those guys prefers side by side tests and real world experience to product specs.  I used to think their reviews were fair for the most part.  Their observation of a certain product for the most part would be similar to my observation (the ones I had first hand experience with), so I took them at their word on the products that I didn't have experience with.  But I have to say in the last two years, after really reading them in depth and going back to the previous issues (which I still have), I have found some very serious discrepencies.  In fact after looking back at them, they have lost their credibility with me.

 

In the last two years I have found some major discrepencies between my experience with certain products and their observation of them.  Also they used to actually measure and score things like resolution and print how many minutes something would last in a low light test.  Now they just say Excellent, Very Good, or Good (meaning OK).  They also used to explain why they felt a particular way for each product, now they barely even comment on each.  To me it has become vague at best.

 

For example, this year they gave editors choice to the Pentax DCF over the Leica Ultravid.  I have had extensive experience with both the Leica and Pentax and will say that they are not even in the same league.  Not even close in glass quality or construction.  Two years ago they rated the Leica duovid as "astonishing" and "Wow what a glass".   This year they gave both the Leica and Swarovski EL (both $1300+)  Very Good scores for Low Light and Resolution but, also gave the Nikon Action Ex ($179.00) the same scores of Very Good.  I also have experience with the Nikon and although good optics for the money, I think that is a joke.  You don't have to have experience with either to tell that this is vague at best.  In fact of the 10 binos they tested 8 got VG scores in resolution.  Same thing in riflescopes.  They rated a Zeiss VM/V, Schmidt & Bender Zenith  (both $1300+), and Nikon Pro Staff ($150) all having excellent resolution.  Does anyone really believe that a bottom of the line Nikon (not a high end Nikon) is just as good optically as a Zeiss,Schmidt & Bender or Leupold VX-III for that matter.  They also gave the BSA very good scores in Resolution and low light actually beating the S&B but then later say the BSA optics are fuzzy.

 

Last year they rated a Leupold Vari-XIII long range M1 6.5-20x50 and gave it excellent scores for both resolution and low light which beat the Zeiss Varipoint 2.5-10x50mm that they only gave a score of Very Good on resolution and just good in low light (they actually claim it performed poorly in low light too).  I happen to own a Leupold Vari-XIII long range M1 4.5-14x50mm and I will tell you that the optics are good but, not even close to the Zeiss.  I could go on and on and on.

 

They have lost all credibility with me.

 

 

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ranburr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ranburr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 14:17

It is called advertising and sponsorship $$$$$$$$$$$.

 

ranburr

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Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 14:32
Hey tbone, sorry to hear about the bug bites, but I, for one, was pleased to read your post on your observations. Also, I am not one of the folks that would disagree with you at all with your observations of riflescopes sporting 40 and 50mm objectives. A top quality scope with a 40-42mm objective will allow us to remain in our treestands well past legal shooting times. A question, if I may, have you ever had the opportunity to compare the Swaro AV 3-10x42 to their 30mm tube equivalent with regards to brightness? Thanks again for your post. Hope all is well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 14:38

 Oh no they're still after ya.



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Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 14:45

DEET ANYONE. I hope it's a clear night this evening. For some reason I have a hankering to star gaze through one of my Elite 4200's!!! 

Roy

AKA- "Elite Predator"



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Farris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 14:45
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SAKO75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SAKO75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 15:41

TBONE1

I agree with your assessment of outdoor life's optics tests. the nikon pro staff and BSA beat out the S&B in low light. how did that get past the editors. if that was even close to being true S&B wouldnt be in business anymore. when was the last time you saw an S&B ad in an outdoor life. i'll say probably never.

in addition, the leupold vx III was the "hands down" winner in low light beating out a 56mm zeiss v scope.

the only other scope with as bad of rating in lowlight was a kahles with a 24mm obj.

 

they have zero credibility with me.

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SAKO75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SAKO75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 15:46

roy

the swarovski website shows light transmission on the av 3-10x42 to be 94% which is as high or higher than the comparable 30mm tubes.

 

they use swaro top and swarodur coating on both series.

 

the main differences are the tube size, the coil springs in the 30mm tubes vs. the leaf spring in the 1", and  the etched reticles in the 30mm vs. wire in the 1" also the 1/4" clicks in the 1" and .36" clicks in the 30mm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 16:47
Thanks Sako
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbone1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2004 at 19:56

Roy Finn,  I have not had a chance to compare either Swarovski in a formal observation or hunting situation.  I would love to though.  Actually, I have been wondering the same thing.  I agree with SAKO75 on the differences, I have always heard they use the same glass and coatings.  I have also read the posts in this forum on 30mm vs. 1",  stating that the only real benefit to a 30mm is increase elevation and windage adjustment.  Given the fact that they have the same glass and coatings and a 30mm will not theoretically increase optical performance.  I am curious.  This is one of those situations where the only way to find out is to test them side by side.

 

I have only looked through them outside hunting stores.   I just don't have anyone I know who has either of these scopes, at least not well enough to ask to borrow them for optical test.  I will work on it though, because I am as curious as you are.  I would also like to see how the Swarovski compares to the Zeiss and S&B in a more formal comparison. Thanks for all the posts, I am learning something new everyday from you guys.  Take care.

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