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$350 scope

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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2015 at 16:10
More magnification is not always a good thing.  If you magnify a blurry mess, you get a larger blurry mess.

As far as looking at bullet holes goes, if you need to do that, get a spotter.  

On target distance engagement:  how far you can shoot with whatever magnification you have in mind depends on the size of the target, quality of the riflescope and magnification.  Of those three magnification plays last fiddle, so to speak.

For example, shooting at steel plates of around 18" in size, 4x magnification is perfectly sufficient for my purposes.  6x is a touch easier as is 10x, but that does not make nearly as much as you think.

Unless you do varminting or shooting at other small targets, 6x in a decent scope will do everything you need with ease.

ILya
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darb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2015 at 16:24
Check out the weaver classic 6x24-50mm
darb
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cold Trigger Finger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 21:27
The fixed power does not limit you. !!!!!
I've had a SS 10 md on my 6.5 Creedmoor for about 8 month. I wanted the fixed 6× md. But the 10× has been working fine. I will put the fixed 6x SS on the rifle but will keep the 10× I've gobbled up lots of 250-300$ scopes on my rifles but all the 10× SS does is work great. I've killed small Sitka Blacktail forked horn bucks out to 525 yards with rifles in 338 Win Mag and 375 HandH. The highest I set the scope was 6x and the farthest was with a fixed 3× 20 Leupold on the 375.
Everyone thinks you need high power variable scopes to hunt with. But I can garrentee u more game shots are lost because the scope was cranked up to some high power. With the quality of the 6×SS glass and coatings and its features and total reliability. You can concentrate on learning the scope, your rifle and shooting. If u want a variable in your price range. Trythe Vortex 1-6 Strike Eagle. If your hunting pigs u probably won't be shooting at many of them at over 300 yards and any good 4x will handle that. No problem. The fixed 6x SS will give plenty of fov for hogs down to 30' . If you go with a cheap scope you will end up regretting it. Go for quality/reliability and learn to use it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nksmfamjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2015 at 11:16
Frankly, I would come up with a clear what you want list first:
- low magnification range
- high magnification minimum
- weight
- form factor - i.e. basic size
- BDC, Turn turrets or Max Point Blank Range methods
- durability factor - safe queen, range, hunting, field sniper, dropping it out of a helicopter(or flight of concrete stairs might happen)
- Optical clarity - daytime (not into sun), hunting (dawn to dusk), night use, in a dark building w/o light
- Price

If you want turrets that you turn when setting up the shot, $300 is a minimum price on the scope. . .and that is a fixed power SS.

If you want FFP, that is like $600 min.

If you want both and you want it in a decent scope, that is about $1200 min.

Now, can you compromise some?

A 3-15x with a BDC to 600 yds can be had for about $430 and it will be a decent scope.  

Check out the Nikon Monarch 3 line with a BDC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rash_powder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2015 at 06:22
I saw a guy on tv once (yes, i know, on tv) shoot something on the order of a mile with an 1890 trap door springfield; he used iron sights and a small bubble level.  Put 3 in a row in an 18 inch gong in a life size buffalo silouhette (gong was kill zone).  Wish I could remember the show or the guy, but that is gone a long time ago.  Probably Guns and Ammo or something like that.  

How far you can shoot with a given magnification is up to you.  I can't hold 10x steady enough to use.  My deer AR has a 14x on it that is used only for spotting, most of my hunting is at 4x, and I really wish I had a 2.5-10.  

I can tell you the SS line will hold.  The 10x I have on my RWS 350 Magnum air rifle has held for easily 500 rounds (not a lot of shooting by any means, but enough to verify it will survive).  Air rifles have a double recoile - rearward when you shoot and the piston flies forward, and a second forward recoil when the piston slams home.  The literally will rip inferior scopes to pieces internally.  It is now happily on my Mod 48 and still doing well.  It will be replaced with a 6x as soon as possible.

For my hunting guns, we have never worried about hold overs.  We don't really shoot past 200 yards, and that is a long one. So we play the ballistics of the round in our favor.  Usually about 2" high at 100 yds gives you the ability to hold dead on all the way to 2xx yds and not have the bullet exceed +/-5" (i think thats what it worked out to, been a while since i had to set up a scope).  You want to shoot further, so you need some sort of tick marks for hold overs.  OR, twist turrets and remember how much you turn.  

I'm on a tight budget too, and trying to convince myself I don't need half of what I think I do.  An SS will do you well.  A duplex reticle will too.  I used to shoot gophers at multiple ranges, out to hearing the plop of impact after the rifle report with a duplex reticle.  

My recommendation, being far from expert or anything appreciable, get yourself a low to mid zoom with a standard duplex reticle and learn the scope/rifle combo OR a SS with the tick marks and learn the combo.  Play the ballistics of the round you use in your favor.  All the math and hold overs are fine and well until you have two seconds on dinner.  Its much easier to aim for the kill zone and let one go.

Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simpkinst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/05/2015 at 19:09
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by SouthernWoodworking SouthernWoodworking wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

You operational envelope is not all that challenging if you have gear that is well made.

Trying to find a scope with a lot of bells and whistles for $400 is asking for trouble.  What you need is a fairly basic hunting scope with a reticle that will support low light operation and, potentially, holdover shooting out to 700 yards.

The Primary Arms scope is well conceived, but not well executed.  It is not PA's fault.  Chinese factory can not yet make products like this at the $300-$400 price point consistently.

Sometimes you get a good one, but most people who buy these shop on price point and never use the all of the features of the scope.

If I were I would be looking at something along these lines:
Later, you can get a custom elevation turret for this scope that will work for your load (Nikon's Spot-On turrets).  

That gets you your mildot reticle, so until you get the turret you can learn to holdover with the reticle.  

Another option would be to forget the whole mildot business for the time being and go for something like this:
Illuminated reticle helps in low light and for your plinking at 700 yards, the reticle will help.

Another option within your budget is one of Hi-Lux/Leatherwood Uni-Dial scopes:
Their quality control is about as good as you will get out of China.  Uni-dial scopes are not as polished as I would like, but they work.

Lastly, you can try this:
It is definitely not Leupold's best scope, but it works as long as you let the turrets settle.



ILya


Have you used the PA scope? What did you think?

Sorry if this is stupid, but can you change the moa turrets on the Nikon to Mil scale?

I like the Hi Lux price but I dont like the Moa turrets. Would rather not have to do multiple conversions

Yes, I have played with it a little, but not too extensively.  I did not think it was worth any more of my time after spending a little effort on it.

MOA turrets can not be easily changed to mrad.

Look, you are trying to get a lot while being on a comparatively strict budget.  There is a very basic rule of buying riflescopes: if you are on a budget, focus on fundamentals and compromise on features.

The fundamentals are: the scope must hold zero and you must be able to see both your target and the reticle in a variety of lighting conditions.

If you want a mil/mil variable scopes with FFP reticle, save your money until you can get the SS 3-9x42.

If you really want a mil/mil scope under $400, I suggest you give up the variable magnification and get the SS 6x42 with mrad turrets and a Mil-quad reticle: 
It will do everything you want in any lighting condition you want.  It may not look sexy, but it is dead nuts reliable.

If you want the turrets to track every time, your options in the sub$400 price range are extremely limited.

There is a great variety of inexpensive scopes out there that claim every feature known to man.  They all look great until you go shooting and the glass is foggy, the zero shifts and the turrets do not track.

Anyhow, if you insist on a mrad reticle, mrad turrets (with some expectation of decent tracking) and variable magnification, the Leupold Mark AR Mod 1 I linked above is more or less it.  P5 turrets have decent feel and 0.1 mrad clicks.

All that having been said, for any sort of distance shooting, I would take the fixed power 6x42 SS  over the Mark 1 Leupold any day.

ILya


I don't mean to hijack this thread, but need to ask.

how does the SS 1-4x24 match up against the Mark AR MOD1?   Like the firedot - but like the SS reticle even better.


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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/06/2015 at 16:23
The Firedot on the Leupold is a nice feature and if you must have day bright illumination, it is the cheapest available scope out there with day illumination.

In all other ways, I think the SSDM is a better scope: true 1x on the low end, more flexible reticle, wider FOV, etc.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simpkinst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2015 at 18:30
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

The Firedot on the Leupold is a nice feature and if you must have day bright illumination, it is the cheapest available scope out there with day illumination.

In all other ways, I think the SSDM is a better scope: true 1x on the low end, more flexible reticle, wider FOV, etc.

ILya

Thanks for the info.

Does the SS have better glass than that Luepy?  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magnumdood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2015 at 00:01
Once you have been shooting a while and peruse sites such as this one, in which ILya often contributes to discussions, you will come to realize that it is not at all uncommon for an optic to cost twice as much as the rifle it is mounted on.  More than anything else in sport shooting, or LE & Military shooting applications, with regard to optics, you get what you pay for.  I know you simply don't have the money to drop $1K on a scope right now.  Been there, done that, have multiple T-shirts. I was class of 1982 at Texas A&M University.  I didn't have a deer rifle or scope.  I had to borrow from my buddy who chose to go to work rather than go to college. Flash forward 33 years: Right now I have two Hensoldts that are on the two rifles I use the most.  I have a hard time imagining any scope topping the Hensoldt in any facet of optics - reliability, consistency, hold zero, return to zero and last but certainly not least, optical performance.  I paid dearly for those two scopes and neither has disappointed me.  I also have a couple of Leupold VX 2 1-4x20 scopes on Turkey Shotguns.  Other than that I have a smattering of cheap scopes in a box in the event I find a use for them other than as an aiming device for a rifle.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hatton mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2015 at 14:18
Regarding Primary Arms.
Cruising the interest net; peeps are generally complimentary regarding their customer service. 
I took a look at at their 1-6 tactical scope. It seems to have a simple (for me that's a good thing) effective ranging reticle. 
Ultimately, I decided against it. As Ilya has said, scopes at this price point either work (kind of a big if) or they don't. If you have problems , it seems PA will respond.
And , has been said re: optics, you will get what you pay for. I decided that a $250 Chine' scope was not what I wanted to trudge through the Zombiee Apocolypse with. 



Edited by hatton mann - October/30/2015 at 23:53
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