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3 scope rings.?

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para7452 View Drop Down
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    Posted: June/20/2019 at 00:04
Would you guys ever use three rings? Not a heavy recoil (308) 15 lb rifle (built-up, started life as 700 PSS, now in HS precision fully adjustable stock, lapped action, Krieger re-barrel, heavy recoil lug, Minox 5-25) Badger Ordnance steel rings. Overkill? More of a chance of misalignment (serialized in pairs)? Am I being paranoid?
Thanks guys. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugsNbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2019 at 06:20
Would not appear to be necessary in this application.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2019 at 09:32
Originally posted by bugsNbows bugsNbows wrote:

Would not appear to be necessary in this application.
 
Agreed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2019 at 10:22
Three rings are for the big heavy kicking calibers.  They keep that scope from moving. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote para7452 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2019 at 15:44
Thanks gents. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2019 at 16:13
OK, you don't NEEEED 3 rings... but it certainly won't hurt you...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2019 at 22:11
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

but it certainly won't hurt you...

i don't agree with this. 3 rings can really hurt you if the rings aren't in perfect, and i mean perfect alignment. any misalignment means you are bending the main scope tube, and that is never good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2019 at 08:25
It isn't necessary, but the mall ninjas at the local public range will definitely think you are a Delta operator if you run three rings.

So you gotta weigh it:
Maybe bend the scope
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2019 at 08:39
😂😂😂
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2019 at 09:05
Originally posted by DWilly DWilly wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

but it certainly won't hurt you...

i don't agree with this. 3 rings can really hurt you if the rings aren't in perfect, and i mean perfect alignment. any misalignment means you are bending the main scope tube, and that is never good.



Absolutely correct. 3 rings are very seldom helpful, much less necessary. If you're using quality rings with good bearing surface to begin with (and the stout Badger rings certainly fit that description), -- especially rings with 4 or more cap screws - a 3rd ring isn't doing anything for you besides adding a few ounces of weight and introducing the potential of binding your scope tube.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2019 at 09:17
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

It isn't necessary, but the mall ninjas at the local public range will definitely think you are a Delta operator if you run three rings.

So you gotta weigh it:
Maybe bend the scope
Be worshipped by a buncha millennials living in their parents' basement that shoot a mosin nagant and talk about the Accuracy International they will one day own.

Leave the Mosin out of it.

I am good with the rest of the post.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2019 at 09:25
I coulda said Savage but that too would have ruffled some feathers.

I gotta spread the slaps around, else it ain't no fair.


Back on topic for para: you are being paranoid, forget the third ring, badgers won't let you down. Go shoot!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2019 at 20:09
Originally posted by DWilly DWilly wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

but it certainly won't hurt you...

i don't agree with this. 3 rings can really hurt you if the rings aren't in perfect, and i mean perfect alignment. any misalignment means you are bending the main scope tube, and that is never good.

Some things are obvious...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2019 at 20:15

Mount for a hunting rifle... has nothing to do with the mall or any ninjas... no bending or misalignment possible.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2019 at 08:29
Yes, but that isn't a 15 pound 308, it is probably closer to a 9 pound howitzer.

I think Badger used to sell a set of rings for 50-cal, it was a 3-ring set, serialized; and was meant to deal with extreme recoil forces.

You can also but jet fuel in a Prius, but...why?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2019 at 15:43
Plus, unless my eyes deceive me, that looks to be a Near 3-Ring Alphamount in Dan's pic, where the front two rings have an integral lower mount section, machined together on the same work setup. That's basically just a wide single front ring, not the same as a true 3-ring setup with 3 separate independent mounts. 

That also looks to be a Champlin rifle, and I'm assuming in a thumper round like .378 WBY. That being the case, the "3rd ring" (integral or not) is still unnecessary, because the rings themselves aren't the weak link in that setup. Unless you use a side receiver mount, the mount base design on a Champlin rifle consists of either four #6 or #8 screws (I don't recall which size), on a flat receiver top, with no other mechanical inertia stops incorporated. So, those tiny screws and base engagement friction are all that is arresting the inertia of 2.5 lbs worth of scope and mount mass under 75-80 ft/lbs of recoil energy. Those tiny mount screws will shear far before the scope slips under even 2 rings of decent bearing length using 4 fasteners each. 

Most non-engineering types believe that if you just add mass, you increase resistance to movement under rapid acceleration and dynamic loads, but that's not always the case. An increase in mass certainly increases tensile strength but it also increases inertial forces, which put greater tensile strain on things like fasteners. Another example of more not necessarily being better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2019 at 17:04
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Plus, unless my eyes deceive me, that looks to be a Near 3-Ring Alphamount in Dan's pic, where the front two rings have an integral lower mount section, machined together on the same work setup. That's basically just a wide single front ring, not the same as a true 3-ring setup with 3 separate independent mounts. 

That also looks to be a Champlin rifle, and I'm assuming in a thumper round like .378 WBY. That being the case, the "3rd ring" (integral or not) is still unnecessary, because the rings themselves aren't the weak link in that setup. Unless you use a side receiver mount, the mount base design on a Champlin rifle consists of either four #6 or #8 screws (I don't recall which size), on a flat receiver top, with no other mechanical inertia stops incorporated. So, those tiny screws and base engagement friction are all that is arresting the inertia of 2.5 lbs worth of scope and mount mass under 75-80 ft/lbs of recoil energy. Those tiny mount screws will shear far before the scope slips under even 2 rings of decent bearing length using 4 fasteners each. 

Most non-engineering types believe that if you just add mass, you increase resistance to movement under rapid acceleration and dynamic loads, but that's not always the case. An increase in mass certainly increases tensile strength but it also increases inertial forces, which put greater tensile strain on things like fasteners. Another example of more not necessarily being better.

Yeah... we've discussed the Near Alphamount on the Champlin 378 Weatherby Magnum before.  It sits on a Near Picatinny rail with 4 #8 mounting screws.  The dual ring base is bigger than a single ring base attached to the rail with a single picatinny mount point at each ring attachment.  Each ring top is attached to its base with 4 #8 screws... 12 total.  The scope and Alphamount together weighs 1.4lb or 15.5oz for the scope, 6.4oz for the mount, so the only "more" is surface holding the scope... no mass (there was a fighter who used that term once...).  
Badger did make a 3-ring mount for 50BMG, but I've only seen one from afar.  It would have been better than Warne rings, which came loose during a firing event and almost ate a hole through the tube of my SS10xHD while being used by a friend.  The SS10xHD is still holding up well, but I melted the Warne rings with a torch.  They were 50BMG rated but didn't hold up well to the torch or the 50.  
The .378 is rated a "heavy" recoil rifle... I've fired 40 rounds in a sitting, no muzzle brake, and find it moderate.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2019 at 17:18
To get back to the original question... as I stated, 3 sets of rings is certainly not needed.  I've seen 3 ring set ups that looked pretty good, I REALLY like my Near Alphamount... it was a custom build, with rail, for the Champlin.  Works great and I think I have 4 Near mounts of various configurations.  They are all excellent.  
Certainly, if you are not comfortable with mounting a 3 ring set, don't do it.  If you just want "the look", you can get a good gunsmith to set it up.  As Rifledude pointed out, it could well be wasted money if the rings are not properly chosen.  Unless it is a single mount construction, I would not care to do it.  I've never really found a need for such a thing, but it is sometimes a fun conversation piece.  Get what you want, use good judgement.  If cost is an issue, don't do it.  
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