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Need help picking thermal scope

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T.LEE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote T.LEE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Need help picking thermal scope
    Posted: September/08/2019 at 10:27
I need a little help from some people with experience. I’m in the market for a thermal scope. The problem is I have virtually zero first hand experience with them. I’ve been reading and researching everything I can get my hands on but I’m a hands on learner. The info never really sinks in until I get my hands on it and use it. I’ve even gone to a few retailers that sell them and have only managed to find people moderately experienced. They answered some questions but those really left me with more. 
 I’ll tell you what I’m looking for, or should I say what I think I’m looking for.  I’m hunting coyotes and hogs in a variety of areas. For the most part we are hunting in open bean and corn field with the potential for 200-300 yard shots. From time to time we hunt in wooded areas like the swamp with much shorter shots from 25-100 yards. There’s a mix of wide open area and areas with low level brush. I have a new Remington 700 in 308 that I plan on mounting it to. 
 I’ve read numerous reviews on countless models and types.  I’ve watch numerous videos on YouTube. The only thing is everyone is trying to sell this or that and me having no experience I'm not able to discern the real reviews from the BS reviews. 
 I’m super interested in the trijicon mark 3, 35mm but my budget isn’t. From what I’ve seen that is a pretty good optic and seems to do everything I want. It looks like it will see clearly at the range I want, record video, rangefinder etc etc. My budget is more in the $3,000-$4,000 range though but I might be able to squeeze a few hundred extra if I’m really impressed. 
 So basically I’m looking for good advice from some of y’all that have some decent experience with thermal scopes.  Any info or advice that will help me cut through the BS and make an informed investment will be greatly appreciated. 
Thank you for your time. I look forward to your replies. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/08/2019 at 12:55
I’ve done quite a bit with thermal as well as conventional night vision, both helmet-mounted and weapon-mounted,  My advice is to rent a few of your options and try them out first-hand.  It ain’t cheap, but it could save you making a really expensive mistake.

As an example, I prefer thermal for scanning and conventional NV for shot-taking; however, I’ve worked with/ hunted with guys that much prefer thermal scopes and just move with NV.

You won’t know what you prefer till you try it out.  I do not like thermal scopes but prefer monocles, either hand-held or helmet mounted.

Look up companies that rent both thermal and NV, and they almost always offer used models for sale, and almost always offer to rebate a purchase with the rental fee.

Otherwise, you’re gonna hear what others like, but it might not apply to you at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/08/2019 at 12:59
First, welcome to OT, T. Lee!

I have quite a bit of experience with hog and predator hunting using thermal scopes. All of my experience is confined to using mainly FLIR thermal scopes, though, with a little time behind Armasight and ATN scopes. Armasight is no more and has now been replaced by FLIR, who owned the brand. I wouldn't personally buy anything ATN due to negative experiences from friends who've owned ATN stuff.

I have no experience with any of Trijicon's thermal scopes. No matter how much I enjoy hunting with thermal scopes, their thermals just cost way more than I'm willing to spend.

So, all I can offer you is my observations from the 3 FLIR thermal scopes I own: an RS32 1.25-5X19, Thermosight Pro PTS233 1.5-6X19, and Thermosight Pro PTS536 4-16X50.

Before going further, a couple terms:
"Detection range" = "I can see an animal of some sort." Animals appear as undefined "blobs," but stand out clearly from surroundings.
"Identification range" = "I clearly see the animal is a feral hog, and I can make a precision shot on the shoulder." You can clearly distinguish one animal species from another.

I bought the RS32 1.25-5X from a fellow forum member 4 years ago. I would have never entered into the world of thermal scopes at its normal MSRP, but I got a good deal on it. This is the scope that introduced me to night hog hunting, and I was hooked. The resolution left me wanting, but I was very successful with it and had a lot of fun hunting hogs at night. Although I could detect animals out to about 300 yards, positive identification range was limited to more like 100 yards in ideal conditions, and true effective range for precision shots was more like 75 yards.

A little over a year ago, I picked up the other 2 scopes. Although they are still 320 core resolution scopes like the RS32, they represented a significant improvement in resolution over the RS32. I would prefer 640 pixel cores, but FLIR's new "Boson Core" and "Digital Detail Enhancement" features on the PTS series really helped boost target detail. The PTS scopes have an image enhancement menu that allows tweaking contrast, sharpness, brightness, gamma, etc. This helped provide image detail that to me closely rivaled the 640 pixel scopes of a few years ago without the 640 core price tag. Both scopes also have 60Hz refresh rate, which is helpful for moving animals. Keep in mind that zooming with any of these scopes is done digitally, not optically, so although the image size increases, detail doesn't really increase; the image just becomes more pixellated. So, you should mainly concern yourself with the base magnification.

In short, it's been my experience that the PTS233 has a real world effective range of 100 yards and the PTS536 out to around 200 yards, maybe a bit further for both in ideal environmental conditions (cold, low humidity night). By that, I mean "positive ID" of the animal and sufficient image detail to make precision shots. Detection range is perhaps twice that distance. They won't dazzle you with extreme resolution and despite the significant resolution improvements, still won't give you 640 core resolution. I'm ok with that personally, because combining 640 core and 60Hz gets very expensive, and I'm simply not willing to spend that much on a thermal scope when the scopes I have serve my needs just fine already. If you're new to thermal, you may have to manage your expectations and realize that thermal optics won't give you the resolution you're accustomed to with conventional optics. Resolution isn't what makes them so effective; it's their detection ability and making anything alive stand out in stark contrast against their surroundings in complete darkness. Once I learned to accept their limitations and appreciate their strengths, I was able to get on with the business of being extremely effective at night hunting.

For your stated requirements and budget, I think the FLIR PTS536 will come closest to meeting your requirements most of the time. I don't think 300 yard precision shots are realistic for that optic or for anything currently at $4k price point and below, but I've found the PTS536 works fine for me from 25-200 yards on pig sized animals.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/08/2019 at 16:00
Good words...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/08/2019 at 20:52
Welcome to OT, T. LEE!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorzz727 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2019 at 04:42
T.LEE, on your place, if that's not about financial question, I would try something from AGM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juniorzz727 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/16/2019 at 04:45
T.LEE, my brother has one of their best models  and he says that sometimes in the darkest night, by using those thermal binoculars - he can better than in the day by his own eyes. It has 50 Hz and 336 x 256 resolution, and price/quality is the most balanced.

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Edited by Kickboxer - December/17/2019 at 09:39
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DWilly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2019 at 00:30
not quite on topic but related. wondering how far can you detect a life form? and I assume this could be done in the day time with a thermal whatever. scope or binoculars. 300...600...900...1200? i have no clue about this night vision or thermal vision stuff. not talking about identifying or making an accurate shot. just how far can you pick up a heat source/life form?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2019 at 08:22
As with most things, capabilities - in this space especially - are a function of price. Mostly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2019 at 09:16
so is there equipement that can sense heat at extended ranges? and how far?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2019 at 09:44

Yes and how far varies greatly between different devices.

ILya
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