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#6-48 and #8-40 Rant |
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Scrumbag
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: October/22/2013 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 4205 |
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Posted: January/16/2020 at 12:41 |
All, Can anyone tell me why oh why optics and mount manufacturers keep trying to use these threads on optics mounts? They are basically unobtainium outside the US bar specialist gun supply stores which charge a horrendous mark up. Can US makers not go over to the M designations that can be easily got in the US and the rest of the world that has gone Metric? It would really help us out here and would stop some stupid retailers in the US claiming that some specific screws are ITAR controlled just because of the damn thread! (Taylor's, I'm calling you out on that one!) Ilya, please have a chat with Burris particularly on this! Scrummy
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Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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The metric conversation is an interesting one. Basically there are those who have put a man on the moon - and those who use metric.
Carry on. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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I agree totally. I don’t know why they weren’t converted over a long time ago. 6-48 and 8-40 are ridiculous choices for fasteners, used virtually nowhere else on the planet except firearms, and even then, basically only on scope mounts. Half of US manufacturing has switched over to metric units some time ago. The metric system makes infinitely more sense, with every unit relating to the other units in increments of 10.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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I was trying to make a joke and you had to go and ruin it with ration and logic.
Thanks for that! |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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Richard cranium!
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Doug
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Scrumbag
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: October/22/2013 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 4205 |
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Hi RC, if it's any consolation I thought it was funny! The think that bugs me is I have heard quite a few times people talk about US made rings / mounts and complain "They're nice but good luck getting spare screws" It's literally costing companies sales... for a historical hangover... Is there a technical reason for say #6-48? I don't imagine it can be fastly superior to M3.5 can it? Scrummy
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Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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budperm
Optics Retard show me your sheep!! Joined: January/01/2009 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31710 |
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Well it is SAE vs Metric.
I surely wouldn't mind if they switched over on the screws. I can tell you, growing up SAE, it's surprising how hard it is to get that inherent feeling for sizes and volumes in metric that I have for SAE sizes. It's been painful at times trying to shop on-line buying metric or European sizes....
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"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson |
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Lobbyists, "good ole boy"-ism and machine costs define the problem. Metrics, obviously, are the units to standardize on, but there are significant changeover costs and issues. There is also a philosophy of "un-American" in using metrics. While with the F/A-18 program, I worked for several years to make the conversion to metrics and could not overcome the politics and the significant cost add-ons. The big problems come when programs are allowed to use both (JPL and Lockheed Martin cost us a MARS test spacecraft because of a failure to make proper conversions... guess it was actually LM's fault, but JPL did not double check the math). Resistance to conversion is still strong, though misguided. I doubt I will live to see it happen.
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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budperm
Optics Retard show me your sheep!! Joined: January/01/2009 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31710 |
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Have to agree with you on that one, not in our lifetime...
Good ol JPL! I came very close to working at JPL in Columbia, MD Interesting place!
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"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson |
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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I believe you would have had fun there, Bud. Lots of interesting stuff going on.
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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The reason the gun mfgs went with such an odd pitch in #6 and #8 is so that they could get a lot of thread engagement in a short screw, to both provide fastening strength and to resist vibrating loose. Those were valid choices back in 1930, but today we are only clinging to them because "that's the way it's always been." You're 100% correct that M3.5 X 0.6 and M4 X 0.5 metric screws are so incredibly close dimensionally to 6-48 and 8-40 respectively, both in diameter and pitch, that there is no technical reason that the imperial size screws would be superior in any way. For all practical purposes, each are interchangeable in terms of tensile strength, thread shear, vibration loosening resistance, etc. And you can get those metric screws everywhere. It isn't done because it will upset the apple cart, old farts who are resistance to change and dislike everything metric will b!tch and moan...and it makes too much sense.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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I am totally on board with switching to metric, but people do not like change. SAE sizes confuse the hell out of me.
With gun companies though, I think there is also an element of sadism there. I think they are actively trying to find the most silly way of doing things just to see their customer run from hardware to hardware store trying to locate 7/64 and 9/64 hex wrenches and only finding 1/8 on the shelf. By the way, that should also switch to metric. ILya
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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If we used metric, we'd probably get to the moon a couple of years earlier and already have a functioning base on the surface. ILya
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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Interestingly enough, Scrummy's homies brought us the Imperial measurement system. As far as I am concerned, the only Imperial measurement left should be the pint. A half litre of ale just doesn't sound right.
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Doug
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Litre of ale sounds about right to me, so you can safely do away with the pint too. ILya
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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A liter of lager in Munich is a good thing. But, a pint of ale rings true.
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Doug
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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I am sure you will get used to it... ILya
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Son of Ed
Chuck Norris Joined: June/18/2011 Location: TEXAS Status: Offline Points: 122210 |
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Visit the Ed Show
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Dogger
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/02/2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 8915 |
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The metric system makes sense but I was raised on Imperial and am still not comfortable with it even after many years. Part of the problem is our mixed bag of metric and imperial. Go into any store to buy building supplies and all lumber and hardware (nails, screws etc.) are in feet and inches. Then look online for Canadian building codes and specs are shown in metric, with smaller sidebar showing standard sizes. Really screws with your mind.
Love it when I visit my son in Miami because weather is shown in Fahrenheit and winds in mph - much easier for me to relate to. My kids think I’m a dinosaur, their generation was schooled from the start in metric so that’s all they know - I do building projects for them, so they don’t understand my frustration.
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God save the Empire!
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Scrumbag
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: October/22/2013 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 4205 |
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I could murder a beer... I've been talking to the insurance companies...
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Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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