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pulsar core rxq30v vs atn thor 4 384

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RifleDude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2020 at 09:44
Originally posted by tejas tejas wrote:

I live about 10 miles outside of Temple. About an hour north of Austin. I’d love to go! Keep me informed. I’ll IM you my number.

Oh heck yeah I know where you live! I drive by just a little north of you on my way up there each time. I take HWY 6, skirting the edge of Waco, Meridian, Hico, Dublin, Eastland...

The place is about 275 miles from Temple. Anytime you want to go, just PM me and I’ll make it happen.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2020 at 10:39
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Ted, I did not say it was not necessary to mount it on a rifle to see how it performs on a rifle, just that evaluation of performance of the thermal scope itself does not depend on mounting on a rifle.  
Au Contraire mon frere. When you’re about to drop $2k, it kinda does. Everything matters. Not so much on an AR. But you really have to take it out with deadly intent before you can truly eval it, because your “positive IDs“ have to be much more positiver when you’re about to launch bullets into flesh. Your IQ criteria then immediately becomes ever more critical.

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

However, what do you do if you buy it, mount it and then discover that the thermal performance is not what you needed/wanted?  

You significantly increase the chance of that happening if you invest less than $2500...that is, if you’re serious about hunting with it. Your chance of buyers remorse increases exponentially if you ever get a chance to use a $3k unit. I’ve seen it happen, more than once. Low resolution (anything less than 320 on the wide side of the sensor) ain’t your friend. I realize many people can not justify the cost of thermal scopes, but I truly believe if you’re unwilling or unable to budget a minimum of $2500, you’re better off either selling something to make up the $ delta or waiting until prices go down than buying a lower priced unit. Otherwise, you will soon regret your purchase after you begin actually hunting with it in all weather conditions. Id wager that few people who hunt with thermals often will disagree with that. 

If one cannot justify or afford the cost of an airplane, one probably shouldn’t shop for airplanes.

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

However, you can invite me to hunt and you can make fun of my lousy scope as I help you reduce your herd.  

You’re welcome to come hunt, as long as you don’t make fun of my limited experience in the use of thermals and my inability to recognize that an AAS-38 Nite Hawk pod for steering GBUs is exactly the same as a Pulsar Axion used for hog hunting.

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

As for the military gear... F/A-18 FLIR/TFLIR/ATFLIR were certainly the extremely high dollar.  

Uber cool! Which QD mounts work best for that?

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I believe there is utility for $2000.00 and under thermals based upon observed performance.  The Pulsar is/would have been better than my ATN, but the ATN is better than I thought it would be.  I don't feel cheated.

I believe that everyone should buy whatever they want with their own money, whenever they want, and for whatever justification...or for no justification at all. 

I also believe that aforementioned “utility” will likely be very fleeting... based solely on my limited experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2020 at 10:50
Originally posted by JimFromTN JimFromTN wrote:

I have been readng and researching what you all have said and really appreciate it.  The rifle that I use for hog hunting is a rem 700 in 35 whelen with a 22 inch barrel.  Its for swamps where shots are under 100 yds and followups are almost non-existent.  The recoil is kind of stout but not too unpleasant.   Should I be concerned with the recoil?  Allot of these thermals are only rated to 308.  I am considering a muzzle brake if it is an issue.

Hi Jim. Yes, recoil will be an issue. Even the units rated for .375 level recoil are better off not being subjected to heavy recoil if possible. I primarily hunt hogs with .300 Blackout (subsonic) and 6.5 Grendel and have no problems killing them with those pipsqueaks. 

I guess you can mount a brake, but if I were you, I’d use a lesser recoil rifle (if you have one available) before I’d put a brake on your Whelen. The thermal might hold up just fine, but I personally wouldn’t take that chance with your expensive thermal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2020 at 10:57
I would love to be in a blind with you two characters! Even without hogs the sparkling repartee would be well worth the price of admission. Carry on gentlemen!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2020 at 13:05
Hogs get educated fast. If they see one of their compadres get whacked under a spot light. They will be nervous next time they see one. That goes double for big boars. If you have corned a field and your seeing hogs walk through it without stopping, they are headed for either a sow in heat or water. Either way, they will usually come back. Try using some strawberry jello or some hog wild mixed with your corn. Hogs are all about smell. At first it may spook them into not coming out, to them, the whole environment is different,  but they will get over it. If you have to use your spotlight, try aiming it over the top of them and slowly moving it downwards enough to illuminate them. Expect some frustration, they will still bolt. You might can get off a shot first some of the time. That is my least favorite way to hunt them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richm1224 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2020 at 15:06
I’m currently looking in that Same price range. Is there anyone contributing to  this thread who has actually used both scopes, Could do a side-by-side comparison and has an opinion?
Thank you 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2020 at 20:55
Rich, I've had the Pulsar "in hand" mounted on a rifle, did not get to shoot with it, but did do some target ID with it... it was my first choice, but was not available in my timeframe.
The one I have, ATN ThOR LT, I got just because I wanted to check out the "bottom end" of the market and it was available quickly.  For my purposes, it is fine.  I have no issues IDing animals at ranges and under conditions I need to ID and engage them (and we've had some HEAVY humidity lately). But, I have spent an inordinate amount of time with IR systems and that may prejudice my opinion.  The ThOR 4 384 would obviously be better, visually, (as long as everything works) but it also has features I just did not want.  I believe the Pulsar is a better option... less to fail, but its display is only 640x480.  If you get an ATN with the "bells and whistles" that works, it is a fun thing... I've had varied success with ATN products... no issues so far with the LT. The ThOR (LT and 384) has a better display at 1280x720... considered HD.  
Much will depend on YOUR eyes.  I still contend it is best for you to try to get the scopes in hand somehow and make your own observations.  Difficult to do sometimes, but I believe it is better than purchasing something you end up unhappy with.  I still disagree that you must mount a thermal optic on a rifle to assess its inherent capabilities.  There are some thermal optics that don't mount up well on a rifle and certainly those would be an exception.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richm1224 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2020 at 21:42
 Thank you I appreciate the insight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2020 at 02:04
The Pulsar Core RXQ30V is a 384 core unit, so it has decent microbolometer  (sensor)resolution. On the negative side, its resolution is hampered a bit by the fact it has fixed image focus, so that will limit ID range somewhat. I’ve not used that specific scope, but I have used other scopes of the same basic spec combo — same native optical mag, 320/384 core, fixed focus, basic black & white hot color palettes. The expected image quality in those basic units of similar spec are pretty similar between the brands. The RXQ30V will have around a 75 yard effective range for most hunting based on the specs. A buddy of mine is planning to buy this scope, so I should have some hands on in a few weeks. The good thing about the RXQ30V is Pulsar does have a good warranty and a good customer service reputation overall. 

Dan mentioned display resolution differences in his post above. A higher resolution display is certainly a good thing, but an “HD” display is only really exploited when there’s a correspondingly “HD” sensor feeding it data. Comparing display resolution is deceiving without also factoring in sensor resolution as well and is only really useful when comparing units of the same or very similar sensor resolution and pixel pitch. A 1280 x 720 display screen paired with a low resolution (240 and lower cores) sensor usually won’t outperform a 320/384 core sensor paired with a 640 x 480 display at the same or close base optical magnification because the display isn’t the limiting factor. You simply can’t superimpose higher pixel count on top of a critter than what is available on the sensor to begin with. Having an HD display on a scope with a low resolution sensor is sorta like installing a supercharger on a Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engine.


Edited by RifleDude - June/08/2020 at 02:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimFromTN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2020 at 08:55
I came across a used Flir PTS233 thermosight pro in good condition.  Would you go with a used flir over a new pulsat or ATN for the same price?  I spoke to someone who works at a place that strictly deals with night vision and he recommended not going with a flir/armasight.  His reasoning was flir might not support them anymore.  I think he just wanted me to buy something he had in stock but thats just a guess.  He also sold ATN and highly recommended them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2020 at 09:21
I think a blown Briggs & Stratton is awesome. But, 6:1 or 8:1 ratio, pressurized fuel tank or no?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimFromTN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2020 at 10:54
I am so confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2020 at 11:13
Sorry Jim, that was from RifleDude's comment above about supercharging a Briggs & Stratton. Regarding NV, this thread is adding information and my interest. I never paid much mind before. Now I'm not sure if I want to start with a rifle scope or a monocular for my first NV device.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimFromTN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2020 at 11:47
OK good.  I was thinking something just blew past me above my head.  As for monocular vs scope, if its for hunting then monocular will make you wish you had a scope.  Thats what I found, at least.  Ultimately, having both is best.  I just need to find a way to hog hunt more to justify the expense.  They are talking about opening night hunting for coyotes in TN,  That maybe all I need.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2020 at 12:14
Originally posted by JimFromTN JimFromTN wrote:

I came across a used Flir PTS233 thermosight pro in good condition.  Would you go with a used flir over a new pulsat or ATN for the same price?  I spoke to someone who works at a place that strictly deals with night vision and he recommended not going with a flir/armasight.  His reasoning was flir might not support them anymore.  I think he just wanted me to buy something he had in stock but thats just a guess.  He also sold ATN and highly recommended them.

I have that FLIR PTS233 and its a good scope with pretty good resolution. I really like the "outdoor alert" color palette, which shows warmer objects like animals highlighted in yellow/orange (depending on intensity of heat and distance from you) on an otherwise "white hot" mode. Unfortunately, FLIR has decided not to continue offering optics for the civilian consumer market, so its anyone's guess how long they will continue providing service for non-military units. They say they are still offering service and honoring their warranties, and they are legally obligated to do so...until warranties expire.

If you can get the PTS233 at a really good price and you want to be able to record video of your shots, I think you will probably like it. Even though I like the scope, I'm hesitant to recommend any FLIR without caveats because of their decision to discontinue the consumer units.

From a source whose opinions I respect, the FLIR PTS233 and the Pulsar RXQ30V have very similar image quality. The PTS233 has 12 micron pixel pitch vs 17 micron for the RXQ30V, but the Pulsar has a 384X288 sensor vs 320X240 for the FLIR. So, at least on paper, each makes up for the advantage of the other in terms of image quality. The RXQ30V has fewer color palettes (only white hot and black hot) than the FLIR, but those two color palettes are the most commonly used. However, they also have a very cool "picture in picture" mode that I really like where a small window with a magnified view of the center of the reticle is superimposed at the top of the frame at the base magnification. The RXQ30V also doesn't have internal video recording and the PTS233 does, so that may play a factor in your decision if video is important to you. Both have fixed image focus, so combined with 1.5X and 1.6X base magnification respectively, they are both ideally "sub-100 yd effective" scopes. I've spent some time with Pulsar thermals, both with 384 and 640 cores, just not the RXQ30V, and I think they are quality units. For some reason, Pulsar doesn't show the RXQ30V on their website; I'm not sure if that means it's being discontinued, but I'd want to clarify before purchase. Unfortunately the next step up in price from the RXQ30V in their lineup goes for about $3200.

Pulsar has a good reputation for customer service and dependability overall. ATN does not have such a good reputation for either, honestly. I personally would not purchase an ATN product today. In addition to their spotty reputation, their product is made in China, and I'll spend more to avoid products made in China if I have other options, especially given recent events. They may have improved their QC and customer service recently, I don't know. But their reputation isn't the best, and a respected NV and thermal dealer I know of near my hometown has publicly stated they discontinued carrying ATN because they had so many returns, customer complaints, and poor CS experiences with ATN that it was negatively affecting their bottom line. The owner of the company thoroughly and fairly explains his decision in this podcast:




Edited by RifleDude - June/11/2020 at 12:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2020 at 15:37
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Sorry Jim, that was from RifleDude's comment above about supercharging a Briggs & Stratton. Regarding NV, this thread is adding information and my interest. I never paid much mind before. Now I'm not sure if I want to start with a rifle scope or a monocular for my first NV device.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimFromTN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2020 at 10:31
OK, so I am comming down to the wire on this.  I have not bought anything yet but need to in the next couple of weeks.  The pulsar is being discontinued.  Not sure why but it won't affect my decision.  I was also recomended the Bering optics hogster-r 25mm.  It has a slightly larger objective so the picture is supposed to be a little better.  Its a few hundred dollars more.  I have not been able to find any negative reviews on it other than there are many reviews on it since it is relatively new.  All other reviews are positive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimFromTN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2020 at 11:23
Well, I did it.  I bought the Hogster.  I got a pretty good deal on it and its been getting some great reviews.  It looks great to me but I have nothing to compare it to.  My only complaint is the menuing.  Its not very intuitive, its kind of hard to identify the icons if you don't have good eyesight, and its just an all around pain.  You have to use the menuing to zooom in and out.  Wish it was its own button.  Not a big deal because all of my shots are under 100urds and I will probably just set everything once and just leave it.  My enemy will be bordum in the blind and my need to play with it ultimately when I should be paying attention.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2020 at 13:09
Actually, one of the buttons is zoom when not in a menu (I can't recall which, have to be on the gun and muscle memory takes over.)

I am a fan of the hogster optics, I have been very impressed with mine.  If this is a real hunting setup, the PiP function is great for getting a bit more precision on the shot.
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