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handloading vs commercial

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2019 at 10:03
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Good comments, tejas.  Thank you.  The point, I think, is that the variety of hand loading outweighs the convenience of commercial and certainly I can create loads that the commercial market just doesn't.  
 

Quite obviously,  and much more accurately as well.   

It will be an interesting exploration...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2019 at 01:19
In South Africa reloading is a lot cheaper then buying. Most hunters load to save costs. Most target shooters load for both accuracy and cost saving.

Most of our benchrest shooters load by volume. They work out a load on each day and time of time. I personally have never tried loading by volume.

I have deliberately added or taken away a few granules from a batch of loads. That made no difference to my shooting on a target. So I guess a .05 grein more or less is mostly irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things.

I have not used factory loaded ammo in the past 25 years, so I have no comment on factory loads being accurate or not.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2019 at 06:55
Wouter, what would the price of a 20 round box of something like .300 Winchester Magnum Barnes VOR TX 180 grain TTSX be in your neck of the woods?  I can get it regularly for about $45.00 and on sale as low as $35.00.  I've not hand loaded any yet, so don't really have a feel for that cost.  I've just recently (actually in the last 2 weeks) acquired all the components for loading .300 Winchester Magnum.  I've had some custom loading done for my .300WMs... I KNOW I can beat that price.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2019 at 07:12
Actually, just did a Q&D calculation and reusing factory brass, not amortizing equipment cost, cost of my time and not searching for best available deals, I can load .300WM for about $1.05/round, a little less than half the cost of factory.  Time has always been the biggest factor for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2019 at 08:17
Just got off the phone with a gunshop. At R15 to the $ we are paying $86 for 20.

My calculations also comes out at about 50% of factory loaded price.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2019 at 10:37
That is a pretty heavy hit.  Wow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/31/2019 at 18:11
I ordered the Peterson brass in .308, 50 cases to try out.  Arrived today.  Measured all cases... most measured at 2.006, all within + 0.003, -0.002.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2019 at 05:56
Peterson's has good brass. I have won a few 100 at the matches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2019 at 06:38
I weighed all 50 cases... all within +- 0.09 grains.  Certainly looking good so far.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2019 at 06:49
Yeah, I would hate to have a heavy case. Might not shoot correctly 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2019 at 11:08
Originally posted by Bigdaddy0381 Bigdaddy0381 wrote:

Yeah, I would hate to have a heavy case. Might not shoot correctly 

 
I did not expect a big enough difference to make a difference.  A significant variance COULD indicate an inconsistency in case thickness... I was just checking... it's an ingrained quality from my T&E background.  

From an article I copied from somewhere a couple of years ago.  

7.62 NATO vs .308 Win – Case thickness

Measuring the thickness of cartridge cases is kind of a pain, especially since I tend to mash them all up when trying to cut them in half with my Dremel tool. So, I took the shortcut to illustrate the difference. From my big bucket of .308 / 7.62 brass, I selected some representative samples of both commercial .308 Winchester and 7.62x51mm NATO brass and weighed them. I picked several of each and averaged the weights. I didn’t measure the cases because they’ve been fired, so that won’t tell me much other than the general size of the chamber from which they went bang.

  • Hornady .308: 169.6 grains
  • Winchester .308: 163.3 grains
  • Lake City 7.62x51mm NATO: 183.5 grains

That’s a significant difference! Thicker walls combined with similar exterior dimensions means less powder capacity and a lower “top end” and all else the same, lower pressure and velocity.

The thicker brass of 7.62 cases is a significant factor

If it did not matter, why would virtually everyone recommend starting over at a beginning powder charge and working up again if/when case type is changed?  However, I don't believe a less than one grain difference will make a difference.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2019 at 12:42
 So I'm guessing you will clean primer pockets too? Do you weigh each bullet? 

I just don't see it making much different to my shooting out to 1500 yards 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2019 at 13:31
I do clean primer pockets... always did.  IF I am competition shooting, I will weigh bullets.. I've weighed all the ones I've loaded recently... just to get some background.  For this brass, I was performing a Q&D check on QC.  50 cases is not "all telling", but does provide some indicators.  Eliminating as many sources of error as possible makes it easier to work on "me"...
Checking out the numbers...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2019 at 12:24
So all this is a preface to telling us that you've changed your mind late in the game and have decided to forgo the lengthy process of reloading and just spend all the saved time on another pursuit... 
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2019 at 12:25
I mean it's not like you sleep or anything....

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2019 at 17:08
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

So all this is a preface to telling us that you've changed your mind late in the game and have decided to forgo the lengthy process of reloading and just spend all the saved time on another pursuit... 

Not at all... there are times, in the wee hours of morning, when everyone, even the cats, is asleep and I'm tired of reading, that I can load stuff... 
I'm just exploring "how and why"... and I know I'm only at the "easy" part of it now... "it gets bumpy from here".  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2019 at 01:35
Case dimensions do affect pressure a lot. I once loaded some max loads in a thicker wall casings then my standard cases I use (read smaller internal capacity). In my stupidity I did not reduce the powder.
As the day progressed and the temperature started rising I started having problems and  blowing primers and stuck cases. Not a pretty sight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2019 at 06:00
LOL, sounds like me after Taco night...... Shocked  Whistling
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2019 at 19:00
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

LOL, sounds like me after Taco night...... Shocked  Whistling
Or, from what I'm told...pizza night, or spaghetti night, or enchilada night, or chili night, and so on, and so on, and so on...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2019 at 02:31
And all that noise has nothing to do with thicker wall casings....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2019 at 08:13
Although it does increase the back pressure..... Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2019 at 08:33
Are you happy with the Peterson brass? Comparable to Lapua? 

I don’t weigh cases or bullets. It’s NOT a waste of time though. Besides the heavier brass having smaller case capacity, it may also cause you to have inconsistent neck tension if the thicker brass is in that area. 

I DO clean primer pockets. On new brass, I uniform all the primer pockets. K&N makes a tool you can put in your cordless drill for doing that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2019 at 09:20
And that's where I became totally disenchanted with Fiocchi loaded ammo.  Worse brass I've ever seen!
over 30% of Primer channels were obviously off center to the naked eye.  They put a hurting on my primer extractor too...  SO YES I definitely sort and inspect my brass!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lockjaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2019 at 10:37
I find loading my own ammo relaxing. You take a bunch of metal components, and assemble them into something useful. Or to load bullets that you can't find loaded in ammo locally, or available online. 

Then head to the range, shoot them, and see how they do. If you like that, and you use it for hunting, then to the woods to see how they do. 

The sad part for me, is I have found a factory load that does what I want, and then the next box of it, not so much. The best example of that was 7-08, Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertip. It has always been accurate, but the first box dropped deer with devastating results. The next box, not so much. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2019 at 07:39
Originally posted by tejas tejas wrote:

Are you happy with the Peterson brass? Comparable to Lapua? 

I don’t weigh cases or bullets. It’s NOT a waste of time though. Besides the heavier brass having smaller case capacity, it may also cause you to have inconsistent neck tension if the thicker brass is in that area. 

I DO clean primer pockets. On new brass, I uniform all the primer pockets. K&N makes a tool you can put in your cordless drill for doing that. 
 
Have not loaded any, yet... just have done the background work.  CERTAINLY like what I see so far. 
I've been concentrating on .300 H&H Magnum... Peterson did not have any in stock when I was looking.  The cases I'm working right now for .300 H&H are R-P.  They are looking pretty good, but velocities are coming out low for the "manual recommended" loads.  Consistent, but low.
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