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Have New Stock - Now need new scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 09:01
DCAMM94 View Drop Down
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I just put a new Bell & Carlson stock on my 300 WM.  The original stock was the hollow remington injection molded POS.  The B&C fit isn't exactly perfect (see pic below showing mag box extending below the stock, but overall I'm hopeful it will help with accuracy.  Currently, it has a Leupold Vari-X Compact 3-9x32 on it.  Really good 20 year-old scope, but I want target turrets and greater high-end magnification.  I'm leaning toward the Vortex Viper HS Long Range with FFP in 6-24x50.  Is anything out there in this mag range that's even close to the Viper glass and manufacturing quality?  Thanks for your input.

Deck


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 10:32
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Is that bottom metal seated completely? If it isn't I would fix that issue before doing anything else.

I had to do some minor inletting/fitting to get my B&C stock to fit my Savage. A little Dremel work was all it took.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 10:37
DCAMM94 View Drop Down
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Matt,

It's fully seated.  I took it apart, re-checked it, seated the mag box to the receiver and then bolted on the bottom metal.  If you look, you can see that the tabs--both fore and aft--of the bottom metal are fully seated in the stock mounting inlets.  I'm going to send a pic to B&C to see what they say.  I already had to inlet with the dremel to get the barrel to seat, because the stock is designed for a standard LA calibers, and this is a 300 WM contour.  I'll look at again when I get home, but I'm pretty sure it's just a design flaw.

Deck
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 10:57
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I would definitely give B&C a call. Maybe send them the photo.

What are your uses for this rifle?

The players in that price range are Viper PST, Sightron S3, and the discounted SWFA 5-20.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 11:29
DCAMM94 View Drop Down
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Thanks.  I already sent them a pic and questioned whether this is right.  I also mailed my warranty card to them with the same question. 

My uses will be elk to 500yds with a 180gr partition or accubond (assuming I can get them to group).  I have almost 100 rounds of factory stuff now that I'm trying to shoot to get the brass for reloading.  Mostly power-shocks and some 180gr Fed Trophy Bonded Bear Claws.  In the future I'll either load the aforementioned Noslers or some Barnes LRX bullets in 175gr to see what that does for accuracy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 11:33
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Hunting + 500 yards + 300 win mag = Trijicon 3-9 or 2.5-10
my 2 cents ...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 12:17
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I would be looking at a 3-9 or a 4-16 at the most. With a 6-24 you have a small FOV. Which will make it harder to find your target especially if it is moving.

I am thinking that you want more magnification since you are relating to your 20 year old scope. Glass has changed a lot in 20 years. Better glass and lower magnification will allow you to see way better than poor glass with a higher magnification.

Also since you are in Fort Worth TX you are very fortunate, since SWFA is in Red Oak TX. Which is just south of Dallas. It would be well worth your time to go there and look at different scopes.

420 Century Way, #100
Red Oak, TX, 75154
Phone Number: (972) SCOPE-IT (726-7348)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 13:31
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  It looks like the magazine box is not fitting inside of the bottom metal.  It may be seated into the action well, but it has to fit inside (side to side) of the bottom metal also.  I always have to reach inside and pop it in with a small screwdriver before tightening the action screws.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 13:42
DCAMM94 View Drop Down
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Thanks. I don't think the box is off, but I'll check when I get home tonight.  As for being in close proximity to SWFA, don't worry.  Last scope I bought was my 4-16x44 Viper HS.  I looked at it side by side with respect to some of the others I was considering.  Love the cash/over the counter discount vs. credit/shipping.  Great folks to deal with down in Red Oak.  Can't wait for the new site in Ennis.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 13:59
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Also remember it is now legal to hunt in Texas with a suppressor.  My favorite 300WM wears at can at all times now.

As this is a hunting rig, I'd consider the 2.5-10 Trijicon Accupoint.  It has already been said but warrants repeat: high magnification equals limited field of view - which can be very bad while hunting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 14:56
DCAMM94 View Drop Down
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But even if I can come up with the scratch for a 5-20x50 SS, I can always dial it back to 10, right?  Even rimfire scopes are standard at 4x.  My thinking is a 5x or a 6x would work, as a minimum mag, and I can dial it up if conditions warrant.  Don't get me wrong, but I think that a more pressing consideration would be the FFP aspect of the scope.  Because at higher power, even 16x, the magnification of the reticle itself would be helpful in lower light.  My Viper HS 4-16x HS (2d focal plane) would be a tough sell at sundown and long range.  The FFP version would likely make all of the difference in the world, no?  Thanks.

Deck
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 15:59
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FFP is great for ranging known-size targets and for adjusting fire; however, on hunting scopes, it isn't always my favorite (depending on application and reticle design.)  One issue with many FFP scopes is that the reticle is either too heavy at top magnification or too small at low magnification.  If you get FFP, make sure it is illuminated.

As to the bottom end being 5X, everything hinges on distances shooting, target size, target speed, and your capacity to control your breathing and heart rate.

I personally prefer a lower end of 2.5-3X.  Then again, I hate losing animals.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 16:18
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Originally posted by DCAMM94 DCAMM94 wrote:

Because at higher power, even 16x, the magnification of the reticle itself would be helpful in lower light. 
Deck


I would have a very hard time using a scope at 16x in low light. It would be pretty dark and very hard to make out your target regardless of what type of scope it was either FFP or SFP.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 16:29
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By the way what is your budget for this scope?

Plus something else to consider with a 10x scope looking at something at 500yds is similar to looking at it at 50yds without any magnification. Could you hit an elk at 50yds with iron sights?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2012 at 16:43
DCAMM94 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

By the way what is your budget for this scope?

Plus something else to consider with a 10x scope looking at something at 500yds is similar to looking at it at 50yds without any magnification. Could you hit an elk at 50yds with iron sights?


Of course I can hit a 9" target at 50yds with irons.  Budget is between $500-$1000.  Never spent over $600 for glass, but I'm trying to convince myself that it's worth it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2012 at 10:13
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As far as magnification range goes, like others here, I would advise you to stick with something below 24x.  If you like Vortex, then the 4-15x50 model should work well for you.

For hunting there is likely little compelling reason for even a 16x, but it helps with load development, making sure you are on the right target at extended ranges, etc.

In low light, high magnification is of comparatively little use due to exit pupil limitations, so you will stay below 10x as the light fails anyway.  The only real application for 16x would be at the range or on very long shots in good light.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2012 at 10:22
DCAMM94 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

As far as magnification range goes, like others here, I would advise you to stick with something below 24x.  If you like Vortex, then the 4-15x50 model should work well for you.

For hunting there is likely little compelling reason for even a 16x, but it helps with load development, making sure you are on the right target at extended ranges, etc.

In low light, high magnification is of comparatively little use due to exit pupil limitations, so you will stay below 10x as the light fails anyway.  The only real application for 16x would be at the range or on very long shots in good light.

ILya


Thanks Koshkin.  I agree with you regarding the higher mag...just kind of always wanted one.  I have the viper in 4-16, and agree with your comments regarding load development.  That's really the reason I want the higher mag.  I want to both (a) verify my accuracy for load development, and (b) have the ability to practice, with precision, at range.  The only problem I have with the Viper is the relatively fine crosshairs.  I suppose I could come up with the extra cash for the illuminated reticle, but I'm not sure if it's worth it.  The one attractive feature of the Viper HS is that I can develop an accurate load, shoot it over the chrony, and then get Vortex to make me a matched target knob. 

In your experience, how do the Vipers compare to the Sigtron SII big sky, Minox, and Meoptas?  Thanks in advance.

Deck
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2012 at 10:23
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Oh, and I did get the bottom metal to fit a little better.  The mag box is fully seated and there's only 1-2mm between the bottom metal and the stock now.  Here's a pic.  Thanks again to all who responded.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2012 at 10:33
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Originally posted by DCAMM94 DCAMM94 wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

As far as magnification range goes, like others here, I would advise you to stick with something below 24x.  If you like Vortex, then the 4-15x50 model should work well for you.

For hunting there is likely little compelling reason for even a 16x, but it helps with load development, making sure you are on the right target at extended ranges, etc.

In low light, high magnification is of comparatively little use due to exit pupil limitations, so you will stay below 10x as the light fails anyway.  The only real application for 16x would be at the range or on very long shots in good light.

ILya


Thanks Koshkin.  I agree with you regarding the higher mag...just kind of always wanted one.  I have the viper in 4-16, and agree with your comments regarding load development.  That's really the reason I want the higher mag.  I want to both (a) verify my accuracy for load development, and (b) have the ability to practice, with precision, at range.  The only problem I have with the Viper is the relatively fine crosshairs.  I suppose I could come up with the extra cash for the illuminated reticle, but I'm not sure if it's worth it.  The one attractive feature of the Viper HS is that I can develop an accurate load, shoot it over the chrony, and then get Vortex to make me a matched target knob. 

In your experience, how do the Vipers compare to the Sigtron SII big sky, Minox, and Meoptas?  Thanks in advance.

Deck

With the S2 Big Sky, it is pretty close and you have to kinda look at specific models.

Minox and Meopta are better optically than the PST, but once again you need to look at the specific model.

For your application Minox ZA-5 3-15x50 would likely be a pretty nice scope, although it also has rather thin reticles.

Meopta makes very nice scopes that are among my favourites in this price range, but you need to make sure they have enough eye relief for your needs.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2012 at 11:10
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what about the PST 2.5-10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2012 at 12:29
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I just read Ilya's review of it, and it sounds as though it doesn't come close to the 4-16x in terms of image quality.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2012 at 16:58
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I have 3 Leupold VX-3 4.5x14x40 and love them.
I have the CDS on my .300 win mag and I can hit a 8" target from 200-500 with a simple roll of the dial.
 
I have the CDS on my .270 and the Boone& Crockett on my .223.
 
I know the Zeiss gets allot of great reviews and I do have a COnquest 3x9x40 on my .243 and it is great.
 However, hard to beat the eye box and warranty on the VX-3.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2012 at 17:34
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I have the VX-3 4.5-14x50, side focus and CDS and dislike it because it is very sensitive to eye positon.

I also have the Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40 and love it.

Eagle
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2012 at 18:09
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Originally posted by EAGLE EAGLE wrote:

I have the VX-3 4.5-14x50, side focus and CDS and dislike it because it is very sensitive to eye positon.

Eagle

That's because it has variable eye relief. 

It's an OK scope. I prefer the Conquest, but there's no flies on the VX3.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/24/2012 at 23:23
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I guess I should have updated. I got a Conquest 4.5-14x50 from the Sample List and I love it. It out-performs my Viper HS 4-16x44 in every conceivable way. My best group so far is 5/8" at 100yds, and last weekend I did a 2" group at 200yds in gusty winds. I can see bullet holes at 200yds on plain paper targets with proper parallax adjustment. Just a fine scope. Clearly not Alpha, but the best in my stable currently.
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