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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 01:04
rootmanslim View Drop Down
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anyone got a swedish patch we can send this trooper?



Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 06:42
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That's a great picture
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 10:03
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Our Swedish friend has started his own thread cause i guess it's too hot here. What follows is his posting EXACTLY as printed. I love the "some of my best friends are Jews" line. You may draw your own conclusions on how he would feel if Iran nuked the Jews.... Hint...do I hear dancing in the street?
Quote:

Highly unfortunatly have I been given a lot of opinions by a fellow member at this forum that not is mine, and I would therefor like to straighen out a few questions here.



In a previous discussion about Swarovski optics the whole europe was blamed by this fellow member for beeing pro muslim and very communistic.

My responce was that the US with it's unconditional support to Israel is making the world very unstable.

I have been blamed to be an antisemit and that is very uncorrect. It's very sad to see how some people at this forum seems to belive the opinions i have been given instead of them i have expressed.

I stand by my opinion that US and the state of Israel is making the world unstable by a faulty polictics in the middle east and I am going to explain that here.

But most importantly of all, I don't dislike jews at all.



That said there is to big human suffering in Palestine and by the muslims around and in Israel.

The way the State of Israel is treating those people is not nice and very many totally innocent people are suffering severely because of this.

I am neither a muslim and neither a jew, but regardless of that It's not very difficult to understand how i would react if US and united nations gave my land away to the turks and I was forced to leave my home. And I suppose that mostly of you would react the same way.



Now sixty years later numerous of harrasment against civilian non combatant muslims are commited everyday.

A big massacre in a muslim refugee camp was commited during the 80th with Israels prior primeminister Ariel Sharon as one of the prime responsible for this.



So regardless of one opions about jews, blacks, muslims or whatever, my only point is that you can't jump on their throats for a long time without counting on getting something back.

People grew up in those areas to with low possibilitys and constant harrasments from Israel and they grew up with a big hate, a big hate that I belive anyone in the same situation would feel.



The poor way the muslim community in those area is threated it would be more honest to say: we hate muslims and want to kill them all. That would be more honest than the current situation.

And to be honest the difference in how the state Israel is dealing with muslims is not very far from how Hitler threated Jews 60 years ago.



US is unconditionally supporting the state of Israel and this leeds to extreme hate in the muslim world everywhere, this leeds to difficult terrorsists actions everywhere, by muslims from all places in the world.

This way US is as hated as Israel.



If US not had supported Israel the way it does, the campaign in afganistand and Iraq would most likely been much easyer, and lot's of American lives would not have to be spent.



This is not the jews fault, but the polititians of the state of Israel and US.



When it comes to ww2, I am greatfull to the US for their involvement, espesially as my daddy was in the Danish resistance.



Hope this cleared som questions, and if you have more questions or ideas feel free to speak.

Rootmanslim does not have to say anything in this thread as I am never going to answer him anyway.

I think this whole case is dreadfull as I have never before experinced to get opinions that people belives that not is mine.

Enquote





Regards Technika
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 10:24
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Originally posted by rootmanslim rootmanslim wrote:

anyone got a swedish patch we can send this trooper?



 

This American has big shoulders, and I am thankful, but his sleeve isn't long enough for all the patches that could go there.

Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 10:28
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root-thats just so special

interpretation =anything goes

narrowly interpretated guns,bad scopes,iron sites,reloading

broadly interpretated guns bad sopes,iron sites, reloading, handguns.

 

Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 10:37
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Dale, you gotta help me out. 18 years of formal education, 6 years of military service and 30 years in the world of work have not given me enough smarts to figure out your cryptic message.
the questions are easy:
1. Do you support the right of Israel to exist in peace
2. Should Iran have nukes and delivery systems to reach anywhere they want to (ditto North Korea)
3. Do you want the US to lose (ala VietNam) in Iraq
4. Who blew up the WTC, & Pentagon
and PLEASE don't answer the question with a question or rationalization such as "India has nukes why not iran" etc.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 10:40
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"And to be honest the difference in how the state Israel is dealing with muslims is not very far from how Hitler threated Jews 60 years ago." , Technika.

Is Israel using slave labor, doing hiddeous experiments on human beings, and sending men, women and children to there death in gas chambers? Maybe you are far removed from the truth. I don't know much about northern Europe but I thought ugly Europeans weren't that far north.

We have ugly Americans that have compared Donald Rumsfeld to Hitler, too. These are more than extreme distortions of the truth but serious misconceptions about what is going on or has gone on in this world.

And, rootman, history does repeat itself. Evil may find a way to bare it's ugly head but I believe good will win. 

It is unfortunate that this has occurred at OT, but it was bound to happen with it's growth. So, fire away.

 



Edited by tahqua
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 10:52
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And to really make it sad THERE WAS a time when the some of the Swedish people did the right thing:

In 1943 Sweden received thousands of Jewish immigrants from Denmark. With the dissolution of the Danish government in the summer of 1943, the German authorities had decided to deport the Danish Jewish population to concentration camps. However, the Danes successfully transported the vast majority to Sweden in an unprecendented rescue effort. There, they were granted asylum, and taken in by Swedes. Many stayed in Sweden after the war. Sweden also received refugees from Finland and Norway. This, as well as the protection of Sweden's own Jewish population, was made possible due to Sweden's neutrality.

Of course there were also Swedish SS units, iron & steel exports to Germany, free use of the rail system to fight the Brits in Norway. I'm sure none of this is in Swedish schoolbooks anymore than selling steel to Japan up to the eve of WW II or turning away the Jewish refugee ships is in ours.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 10:57
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I was going to ignore this but,...

 

"Maybe a two or three month trip thru Europe in lieu of some new gun & scope would open your eyes to the dimension of the threat, the hatred toward America and the revived anti-semitism."

 

I lived in Eastern Europe (specifically Poland) for two years.  Does that count?  I was never treated with anything but civility and respect.  I did not ever experience the kind of hatred toward America to which you refer. Certainly anti-Semitism exists as does bigotry toward blacks, gypsies, gays, etc., etc, but, it is no more prevelant than what can be found right here in the "land of the free and the home of the brave." I think you have been blinded by the very carefully selected pictures and articles that make it into today's leftist media.  They tend to be very provacative and yet, rather isolated. They do not generally represent the opinions of the European masses.  Propoganda does not a reality make.

 

This is not meant to minimize in any way the threat that exists to the world in general from Muslim extremists (or any number of other fanatical groups prone to violence - many of whom can be found right here within our own borders) but, one of the most important issues in fighting any "war" (as you have put it) is knowing who is the enemy.  Blind attacks at an entire continent, people, culture, etc., aren't representative of a winning strategy.

 

"I saw those people jumping out of the Towers and I don't intend to forget it until every one of those fanatic bastards is dead. I'm a real hard ass when it comes to people who want to kill me and mine and if a few million have to die to stop it...so be it."

 

Does this statement not suggest you to be the exact kind of fanatic you claim to want to destroy?  Perhaps you don't personally revere Mohammed but, you have taken the same stance that the most radical and violent individuals claiming him as their prophet.  (They do in fact, feel that the USA is the world's aggressor and so feel that they are retaliating against, not initiating the violence.) This kind of "kill 'em all" attitude represents an equal threat to "the American way of life" as does their world views.  I saw those people jump out of the towers as well and while my desire for the realization of equitable justice has burned strongly ever since, the event did not inspire any genocidal tendancies in my heart.

 

 

Blaming the Muslims, Jews, blacks, "Euros," Americans, and/or whoever you want for the world's ills is an intellectually dishonest cop-out for the need to address humanity's real issues.

 

 

 

 



Edited by lucznik
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 13:25
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wheres the hangun question?

Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 13:36
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Poland is not France, Germany or the Scandis.Remember we & they won the cold war, hence a different attitude than the other Euros who have forgotten about being under the iron heel of a fanatics boot. I also doubt Poland is (yet) overrun with wacko Muslims like western europe. You sit back and address humanity's issues.... I'm sure the folks at Dachau, Saddams mass graves, Milosivich's mass graves and sitting in Israel waiting for the Mullahs to get the bomb will be heartened by your handwringing.
Evil must be confronted and destroyed and anyone naive enough to think America is the root cause of the world's evil is so #W^(!WC dumb that they should get a one way ticket to Iran or Syria.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 13:38
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Dale do you plan to explain yourself or are you just trying the theory that enough monkies sitting at enough typewriters will write the Bible?
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 14:39
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Lucznik, are you Jewish?

I am guessing you are not.  I am and anywhere I go I refuse to hide it.  I've been to Poland.  I assure you that my experience was different from yours. 

Most of the employees (willing employees) at the concentration camps, such as guards and so on, were not German.  They were Poles, Lithuanians and Ukrainians.  After World War II, a lot of the surviving Polish Jews (there were two million Jews in Poland before the war) wanted to return home.  Polish government allowed only 2000 Jews whose jobs were directly related to Polish cultur, language, etc. to remain in Poland.  All others were thrown out.

ILya

Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 17:20
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Lucznik, are you Jewish?

 

No.


Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I am and anywhere I go I refuse to hide it.  I've been to Poland.  I assure you that my experience was different from yours. 

 

I don't doubt at all that your experiences were/are different.  Everyone's are.

 

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Most of the employees (willing employees) at the concentration camps, such as guards and so on, were not German.  They were Poles, Lithuanians and Ukrainians.  After World War II, a lot of the surviving Polish Jews (there were two million Jews in Poland before the war) wanted to return home.  Polish government allowed only 2000 Jews whose jobs were directly related to Polish cultur, language, etc. to remain in Poland.  All others were thrown out.

 

I don't intend to sound argumentative here (nor am I trying to justify the actions of any individual or group) but, I am wondering about your source of information for these claims.  I have studied WWII fairly extensively and I am not aware of any sources that can validate your claims. I do know that, despite being defeated very quickly, the Polish government (acting from Brittain) along with many, many soldiers and civilians alike were actively involved in anti-Nazi resistance efforts which included the formation and maintenance of an "underground railroad" that saved the lives of numerous people, Jews included. Speaking generally, the vast majority of Jews remaining in post-World War II Poland (actually Eastern Europe in general) made great efforts to escape to the West so as to gain the protection of the American/British controlled areas of Europe. A great many other people did so as well.  Mostly this was due to their desire to escape from Stalin's Communist Russia - which was feared at least as much as were Germany's Nazis and not without justification.

 

I don't doubt that there were Poles who participated in the perpetration of concentration camp attrocities.  However, so too were there numerous Jews who, to gain favor or some measure of perceived personal protection, also assisted the Nazis in rounding up and harming other Jews.  In both instances we are talking about the weakness of individuals, not cultures. 

 

It should also be understood that, although Jews did represent the majority of the victims of the concentration camps, Slavs (including the aforementioned Poles, Lithuanians, and Ukranians as well as Russians, Czechs, and etc.) gypsies, gays, blacks, and others were also widely represented on the lists of victims. They also were not up to the standard of the Nazi's aryan ideal.

 

None of this represents a decent reason to hate (and especially not to call for the genocide of) any group of people: not Germans, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans (whether North or South), "Euros," Jews, Muslims, Slavs, gays, blacks, gypsies, the aged, the disabled, Christians, Budhists, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum. Not even Mormons.

 

 

Now, have any of you noticed how much nicer the Bushnell Elite is when compared to anything Swarovski AND at less than 1/2 the price!!



Edited by lucznik
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 17:58
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I was not talking about the Polish government-in-exile.  The concentration camp personnel statistic was about "rank and file" Poles.  I do not recall a single Jew who volunteered to work in a concentration camp.  Poles, Ukranians and Lithuanians who worked there elected to do that.  No one forced them.  There you are talking about inmates who turned on their own trying to survive.  That's quite despicable in its own right, but not the same at all.  Yes, many Poles helped save the Jews, but they were a much celebrated exception rather than the rule.

It has become were non-PC to refer to anyone other than Hitler as quilty in the Holocaust.  Well, Hitler was popularly elected and widely supported by rank and file Germans.  Nazi armies were welcomed with open arms in Lithuania.  All over Europe, police census lists with Jewish names highlighted were politely forwarded over to the Germans, so that they would know who to arrest and send to the camps.

The Polish government's "Jewish policy" after WWII is a well-known fact.  Over the next two decades after the fall of Nazis Polish government quietly tried to continue cleansing the country of all Jews.  Apparently, 85% of Polish Jewry killed during the Holocaust was not quite enough.  However, Polish Jews were not allowed to immigrate to Europe or Russia.  After all Hitler wanted to make Europe essentially "judenfrei" and largely succeeded, so no one wanted to mess with success.  Polish jews were allowed to go to Israel only (presumably everyone hoped that Arab's would finish what Hitler started at that point).

If you go to Europe now, you will see Jewish cemeteries descrated and swastikas drawn on synagogues.  Jews can not openly wear a yarmolka out of fear for their lives.

Anyhow, before we go back to scopes, here is a link to a Wikipedia page on antisemitism in Poland.  I'de probably be harsher, but it is accurate enough:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism#Poland

ILya
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 18:42
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Koshkin,

 

I think we are going to have to simply agree to disagree about the level of Polish culpability in these matters... at least until we are able to get together someday and discuss the issue in a more appropriate venue then an internet message board.

 

BTW, I also am not Polish - though I do speak the language fairly well.

 

 

Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 18:53
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We can certainly agree to disagree.  However, that will not change a single thing about widespread Polish anti-semitism.  You can choose to ignore it or to be aware of it.  That does not change the fact that it is there.

Iranian president Ahmadinejad also says: "I have nothing against the Jews" whenever any western media is present, but do you believe him?  The fact that you did not notice anti-semitism in Poland is mainly a reflection of the fact that there are not a whole lot of Jews in Poland, nothing else.

ILya
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 22:47
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Koshkin has it right. If anyone read non revisionist history (I suppose that means you have to be 60 or so) you would find that almost all of Europe was and to a great extent is anti-semite. The notable exception in the war caused by the international jewish conspiracy (That's revisionist code for WW II) was Denmark. Any thinking student of history knows that we will wimp out on Iran and are hoping that Israel will handle the problem (as no one else has the balls). The UN with go nuts but they often do and it comes to nothing. Real-Politik would have the Chinese, Japan, Israel and us deciding what is going to happen in the Middle East and as capt picard would say "make it so". We're wimps so it won't and there's a fair chance the Muslims will get the bomb, use it and we'll enter a new dark age. My M-1 is clean and I have LOTS of 30 cal ball. Gotta go watch Red Dawn... a lousy movie but a basic plot that becomes more believable every day
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2007 at 23:10
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Jon joins the "ban them" list.(on Technika's thread)  Shame! Guys this thread is for mixing it up. If you dont want to, stick with the pure scope threads. What's next burning Elmer Keith's Big Game Rifles in the town square cause he thought the 270 was a Pogun and you happen to love O'Connor? I find this intolerence of others viewpoints from Americans almost as disturbing as Euros anti-semitism. Did you guys all attend school after they stopped teaching the Bill of Rights in favor of Ebonics for opressors? If you come to this thread expecting descriptions of viewing resolution charts....well you're in the wrong spot.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2007 at 23:24
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Rootmanslim, this forum is called "Almost, Anything Goes".  Pay attention to the word "Almost".  While the topic of the conversation may be found objectionable by some, noone would call for banning it.  Unless I am very wrong, the problem is not what you are saying, but rather how you are saying it.  One of the reasons so many of us come to this forum is the fact that we have discussions here, rather than flame wars.  As far as the subject matter goes, I actually agree with you on a lot of this (never thought I'd say that), but the way you deliver your thoughts clearly works against you.  If you make an attempt to behave like a civilized person, people will listen to you more.

A little while ago we had a thread where we defined some behavior rules for this forum.  If memory serves me right, you posted in that thread as well.  Please refer back to it occasionally.  That should provide some guidelines on how to express our opinions.  While you are there, also pay attention to a request by our hosts to not advertise for their competitors as you have recently done on several occasions in other threads.

ILya
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2007 at 00:45
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K. First sorry about competitor, my error. I grew up in a very active and diverse political household where what you gentle souls call flame warms were normal discourse. History seems to be a losing cause in America and folks forgot or more probably never learned how the august founding fathers spoke about each other or 100 years later how the venerated Honest Abe was described in the media "The great baboon" etc. Now we are all so "nicey , nicey that no one says what they mean lest they be sued, called "insensitive" or get a law passed against it.
As to the whole issue of the USA & Israel... that merited a full afterburner flame war and I hope technikika will get beyond the PLO propaganda spewed by the Euro media.
On the other threads, you are 100% correct and I'm cooling my jets as long as no one advocates censorship (banning members) over opinions on the merits of product A vs B.
technikia has just started a new thread on old scopes which hopefully will shed some light on the "newest is best" discussion. Thanks, RMS
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2007 at 00:57
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I do not think anyone has been banned here for disagreeing with other members.  Similarly, folk here are far from being politically correct in any way shape or form.  All I ask here is to maintain civility.  If we can not be civil with each other, then how are we different from the the opposition?  They believe that whoever screams loudest wins.  I always thought that we could be better than that.

ILya
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2007 at 16:40
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Topic locked in lieu of rule #4.

 

 

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