OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Rifle Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - How to choose an night vision scope?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

How to choose an night vision scope?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
WITCHCRAFT View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/31/2019
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WITCHCRAFT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How to choose an night vision scope?
    Posted: July/31/2019 at 00:52
I've seen a lot night vision scopes on the internet, still have no idea of how to choose one, even after seen the specifications. What's the biggest factor that really leads to the night vision performance? Which model really brings good experience while using? Please help me out
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2019 at 12:22
Night vision is an exceedingly vague term for an exceedingly complex set of options. Are you asking about conventional night vision or digital or thermal? If conventional, budget dictates much of the conversation. If digital, the vocabulary becomes very important. If thermal, how large of an object, at what distance, with what backdrop, and be ready to answer each question with a few dollar signs.

Maybe we should start over and you should specify a need to be met and a budget to meet it.
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
WITCHCRAFT View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/31/2019
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WITCHCRAFT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2019 at 19:50
I'm looking for under $1500, with the range within 300 yards. Are the digital ones reliable? I found the functions appealing and the price is OK. But still concerned about the reliability.
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 23679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2019 at 07:32
I've looked at the Pulsar 4.5x and have the ATN 5-20x GenII (after owning the 5-18x GenI).  After several iterations of issues with the ATN Gen I (3 different scopes), ATN replaced it with a Gen II.  So far, I have not experienced problems seen with the Gen I, but neither have I used it as much as the Gen I.  
My impression is that those organizations producing digital NV try to do too much for too low a price.  All of the "features" are at least somewhat desirable... onboard recording, GPS Location, bluetooth, built-in bullet drop compensation, multiple reticles to choose from, multiple stored "zeroes" so one can zero with several different ammunition types and be able to switch without rezeroing... a nice feature.  However, the software is only as good as the Quality Assurance/Quality Control on hardware/software/firmware.  IF there is an error in the BDC, it sucks.  IF the firmware is sloppily installed such that the scope "freezes" and has to be reset after every shot, it sucks.  IF the GPS is not powerful enough to access and hold 8 satellites minimum, it is not very useful.  All of these things have been noted with existing digital NV scopes with all the "features".  Traditional NV has its own set of peculiarities as does "thermal".  Thermal is generally "better", but also very expensive.  
My ATN II is definitely good out to 300 yards, but I am always wary of potential for failure.  I've been burned a number of times and just don't have the confidence in the product that is needed for consistent use.  Nothing worse that getting out on a hunt and having your vision device FAIL.  If that happens, no matter what the cost, it was not worth the money.  Reliability is not the strongest point of the digital NV offers.  A company that made the investment in QA/QC to have reliability at a 95% + level would own the market.  
At this point, if one WANTS digital NV, I would say go somewhere and try some out, find one you are fairly comfortable with and get an entry level item.  I don't truly recommend any of the digital NV on the market right now.  It is more a toy than a tool.  I would be very happy if there were less features and the scope was virtually assured to work whenever I needed it.  
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2019 at 11:28
I agree, toy not tool.

I had the Pulsar D550, I think. Battery life was bad, it needed a good IR illuminator almost always, and the image was always noisy. As i said in a review, it was roughly as usable as gen2 NV when you add in the illuminator.

For anything serious - more serious than shooting rats with a pellet rifle - I say gen3 NV to start. If hunting something that can hunt you, definitely gen3 and ideally a thermal for either detection/identification or a thermal.optic, if you prefer.
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
WITCHCRAFT View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/31/2019
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WITCHCRAFT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2019 at 20:10
Thanks for the detailed explanation, although the digital NV seems quiet featured, but still at the initial stage which contains a lot of uncertainty that might bother a lot. 
Which one do you suggest either the traditional night vision or thermal with the good performance and not cost too much?
Back to Top
WITCHCRAFT View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/31/2019
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WITCHCRAFT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2019 at 20:12
As for the GEN 3 or a thermal one, which model do you suggest? Not cost too much but with good performance.
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 23679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2019 at 20:40
Gen 3 NV is pretty darn good, but still not as good as thermal.  I like FLIR.  Anything below about $5k is marginal... to me.
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2019 at 09:11
On the gun, thermal is better than conventional NV almost every time. (Almost.). For movement, thermal sucks and NV is far superior.

Digital is a fun toy when you don’t have access to more expensive options.  I have run the Pulsar 550 and 750 - I think are the models - and they are fun if you’ve never used good NV, and are okay if you have NV experience and know what good NV looks/works like.

I think in 10 years, all NV will be digital; but consumer-grade stuff of today is nowhere near that. Yet.

And “not cost too much” is not the right way to look at this.  For NV, the question should be “what is the minimum I need to spend to get what does the thing I need done.”  If you go in on cost basis alone, you will be disappointed every time.
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2019 at 09:28
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

And “not cost too much” is not the right way to look at this.  For NV, the question should be “what is the minimum I need to spend to get what does the thing I need done.”  If you go in on cost basis alone, you will be disappointed every time.

Absolutely!
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31710
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2019 at 11:50
I'm thinking his parade ha experienced enough rain.....


Another item for the I've hit the lottery wishlist......
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



Back to Top
WITCHCRAFT View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/31/2019
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WITCHCRAFT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/02/2019 at 20:45
Totally got what you mean. After all I need a good scope that I can really rely on, not just some disposable staff to play with. I do have another question. Is the producing area really matters when comes to the quality? 
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 23679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2019 at 06:35
Overall, YES... production location matters when it comes to quality.
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2019 at 09:05
We seem to be leading up to something. Witchcraft, whatever - wherever - you wish to take this, let's get there.

If you are asking if China makes any decent NV, I can say for certain all the bad stuff comes from China, maybe some of the good; but it is a gamble. And you are gambling with real money.

This ain't Monopoly!
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
tejas View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: March/08/2010
Location: Lone Star State
Status: Offline
Points: 575
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2019 at 11:24
I’ve got a Sightmark Photon RT 4.5X42. It’s a sub 1000 dollar scope and decent value for the money. It eats batteries fast, you’ll want a good brand of rechargeable AAs. I use 12 Panasonic’s total and two chargers. You won’t be making any 300 yard shots with it unless you add a more powerful Illuminator. 200 yards is doable in good conditions and 100 yards in almost any conditions. It has some cool features. It can record video, connect to your smart phone and so forth. It’s NOT made in China. I want to think it’s made in Romania but I don’t remember and I’m out of town so I can’t look. It’s marketed under some different brands I believe. You get what you pay for and it’s not a 10k priced scope. It DOES work at reasonable ranges. I’ve killed a lot of hogs and coyotes with mine.



Made that vid a while back. It’s an ok example of what the image quality is like. Scope was mounted on. 20ga. Single shot slug gun. I was hunting on a military base and that’s they’re rules.


Edited by tejas - August/03/2019 at 11:31
Back to Top
WITCHCRAFT View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: July/31/2019
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WITCHCRAFT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/2019 at 21:10
Thanks for explaining everything I doubt with. I'm a beginner of this and always come up with a lot questions. Apart from here on this forum I also get ideas from friends and dealers.
Back to Top
budperm View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
show me your sheep!!

Joined: January/01/2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31710
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2019 at 08:14
If only I had the pockets to experiment..... Say What
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.164 seconds.