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I HATE ARs...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2017 at 06:16
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that's why I own 9 of them.  Or maybe 10… I've been looking for one that I would be happy with… "The ONE".  
I purchased a NEMO Omen Recon, which is a FINE, RUGGED firearm based upon AR15 design.  It is as accurate as one could wish, averaging 0.5MOA.  So far, dependable… did I mention it is accurate?  It is accurate...

My hatred began as a part of that horrendous political action we engaged in the the 60's and 70's.  Good people, people I grew up with, went over there and paid the ultimate price due to the poor performance of that AR15> M16 thing.  Perhaps sometime I will relate some personel annecdotes.  

I have "standard" ARs… 5.56, 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel, .300BLK, .458 SOCOM… and an AR-10.  I'll go into my leanings on these as time goes on, but I am really interested in others' experiences with the "Modern American Sporting Rifle".  Do you really "like" it? Why or why not.  I've seen some of the other fora conversations, but they do no suit my inquiries.  Help me out… what do you see in this verdammt firearm that makes it so appealing?




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2017 at 08:03
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The only thing I hate about ARs is ow much I spend on them.  I only have 5 right now with more on the short list. 

I always had access to one growing up but never saw the appeal to them until I was married and had a kid, which is the worst time to get into an expensive hobby.  For me and I'm sure many others is I can have a unique firearm.  The magazine capacity appeals to a lot too I'm sure.  My first one is a Windham Weaponry AR15 that was more or less plain jane.  I then changed the stock and fore grip and grip and added a scope and so on.  It's like a Lego technic set for older folks.  The sky is the limit.

I grew up in the late 70s and 80s so all the ARs available to me were of decent quality so I can't speak about the early days and failures.  The one thing I have realized is manufactures over gas the rifles to make sure of reliability.  I end up getting an adjustable gas block to tone down the gas in the face especially with a suppressor. 

I'm sure there is more and I'll add more later. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2017 at 08:22
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Originally posted by sucker76 sucker76 wrote:

The only thing I hate about ARs is ow much I spend on them.  I only have 5 right now with more on the short list. 

I always had access to one growing up but never saw the appeal to them until I was married and had a kid, which is the worst time to get into an expensive hobby.  For me and I'm sure many others is I can have a unique firearm.  The magazine capacity appeals to a lot too I'm sure.  My first one is a Windham Weaponry AR15 that was more or less plain jane.  I then changed the stock and fore grip and grip and added a scope and so on.  It's like a Lego technic set for older folks.  The sky is the limit.

I grew up in the late 70s and 80s so all the ARs available to me were of decent quality so I can't speak about the early days and failures.  The one thing I have realized is manufactures over gas the rifles to make sure of reliability.  I end up getting an adjustable gas block to tone down the gas in the face especially with a suppressor. 

I'm sure there is more and I'll add more later. 
Great info.
My wife's Windham:


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2017 at 09:13
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Excellent! 
Here are two I have a picture of handy.  One Windham and one home brew.
(picture fail)

Caliber versatility also comes to mind.  One lower with trigger group and you can have several uppers in different calibers to suit your needs. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2017 at 09:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2017 at 17:01
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Originally posted by sucker76 sucker76 wrote:



Those are good looking sticks…  What is the shorty?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2017 at 19:13
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Home assembled 300BLK SBR.  It started as stripped Anderson upper and lower.  Seekins 8" stainless barrel 1:7.  LWRC UCIW stock.  Samson 9" handguard.  BCM grips.  Leatherwood CMR-4.  Silencerco Saker762.  The Saker also goes on the 16" 5.56 on the left thanks to the QD brakes. 

Putting together the SBR is what threw me over the edge with the AR platform.  I got to pick exactly what it looked like and how it functioned to a degree with the adjustable gas block.  It cycles supers and subs flawlessly. 

To be honest I don't really like the forward grip.  I'm just flaunting that it's a rifle and not a pistol. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2017 at 20:35
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I think a lot of people like that it can be customized to ones specific use.  There has been the wrong assumption by many that because the military chose it that it must be the best choice. The early AR guns from the late 70s had a fast twist 1 in 12  and ran 55 gr bullets the caliber being ideal for racoons and smaller animals nothing larger. I did drop a deer with one in 78.   For what .223   5.56 was originally intended it's adequate.  For what it was pressed into service to do it has improved over the years to today's 77gr bullet  with 1 in 7 or  1 in 8 twist . The heavier bullet transferring more energy.  Lots of people like that it is not particularly heavy - that is until you mount everything from the kitchen sink to grenade launchers on it.  Many have passed the point of it being light and fast due to hanging too much crap on it.  I find that the magazine system is one that changes easily - far more user friendly than the AK and many others so very fast mag changes is a plus.  The down side is the new generation has not learned to aim, that generally requires starting beginner shooters with a bolt action 22.  The low recoil has to be an appealing factor to many. What do I like about it - I can have a rifle capable of engaging multiple hostile enemy combatants at moderate ranges with the ability to carry enough ammo to not run out under most law enforcement circumstances.  Do I prefer a .308 to the .223 - absolutely but for law enforcement .308 is more likely to over penetrate walls.  Would I love to have an FN FAL or better yet a GAllil in .308 definitely always wanted those and a H&K PSG1 but the availability factor for AR and for parts for AR is unsurpassed by that of any other rifle.  Loose a firing pin for something else and good luck finding it. Loose a firing pin for an AR and most likely if you don't have one someone you know in your neighborhood does.   I recently had to order the missing parts for the ejector of an old single shot shotgun once I got them (three week wait) they didn't fit either they are for a 20 not a 12 or they need a lot of fitting much more than I was comfortable with so I found a gunsmith and dropped it off for a few months wait hopeful that some day it will work once I have poured way more money into the pawnshop gun that it would ever be worth.  The AR I could probably fix same day - myself - because  it does not make a big difference who made rifle most companies parts are interchangeable.  Did I mention you can actually find parts  - yep almost anywhere.  I could definitely use another one. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2017 at 21:34
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I guess one reason for their appeal is the fact that it is used so prolifically by the military. But the one reason I don't like them that much is the cartridge. Never understood why they did not use a 6mm bullet instead (6X45 mm). Could get 200 ft-lbs more energy from the same rifle, the ammo would not be significantly heavier, and the magazine capacity the same.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2017 at 15:42
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I also wonder why the military settled on such a small caliber instead of .243 or .264 (caliber not cartridge).  There are too many threads on that subject so I'll leave it mostly alone.  One interesting statement was hypothetically if the US hadn't pressured the UK into the 308/M14 and had adopted the 280 British/FAL, then the 5.56/AR as we know it would have never existed.  It sounded plausible. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2017 at 04:44
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Pro:  Versatility and easy customizing.  Lots of people own them.  (Strengthens our country!)
         Easy magazine insertion.

Con:  Prior reliability in the Sandbox.  Had to send better magazines to our Desert Storm soldier.

Arguable:  Caliber.  I think it's a little light.  We know what works best on deer-sized game.  That starts at .243, and gets better at .25-06.

My Personal Take:  A good self-defense rifle should come up and point as naturally as a fine shotgun.
The AR doesn't do that for me.  The Mini-14 does, though it too has its weaknesses.  (Later models are better.)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2017 at 06:47
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No doubt it is customizable... let your imagination run on what it looks like and performance "features" abound.  Basic to complex in one hour. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2017 at 07:19
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Having spent considerable time behind various ARs, starting with the old M16A2s and now into piston guns and non-standard calibers, I will say that the platform has proven itself good at many things.

Personally, I am no fan of shooting things with a .223 bullet, it's just not enough for anything I really care about shooting. That said, I am a huge fan of the AR10 platform (knowing that is an Armalite designation, but commonly referring to a 308-cal AR.) It hits hard enough, it is maneuverable enough, and it is accurate enough for reasonable distances. Parts are not quite as readily available, and multiple platforms, all lacking standardization notwithstanding, it does more things and does most of them better.

I do have a love for the M1As of old, but they did so few things well (but what they did well, they did very well.) The AR10 is my go-to platform for many tasks now. True, there is more chance of overpenetration; and when that is a concern, I'd rather have a shotgun anyway.

All that said, I have many ARs in many configurations, each specializing in something (whether needful or not.) They have many strengths and a few well established weaknesses, but the platform simply works.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2017 at 10:03
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Originally posted by nralifer nralifer wrote:

I guess one reason for their appeal is the fact that it is used so prolifically by the military. But the one reason I don't like them that much is the cartridge. Never understood why they did not use a 6mm bullet instead (6X45 mm). Could get 200 ft-lbs more energy from the same rifle, the ammo would not be significantly heavier, and the magazine capacity the same.


I have been seriously considering getting a 6x45.  I bet shooting an 85 grain Barnes, 85 grain Nosler partition or 85 Sierra game king they would be awesome.  From what I have been reading 2800ish with a 20" barrel is obtainable. 

My only draw back is I already have a 6.8 spc which will do everything the 6x45 will do, but just a little better. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2017 at 04:45
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I've not shot much with my AR10 lately.  Spent some time with the CZ700 and the new Weatherby VMC.  I'm still flipping scopes on the AR10, haven't decided on one, yet.  Have not really found the one I like for that firearm.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2017 at 07:42
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Mine wears a nightforce 2.5-10x42 (and a PEQ15) and it is a good fit. Then again, mine is a 16" barrel piston gun, it is a 500 yard gun.

The other scope it wore for awhile was a 6X acog with an RMR on top, I liked that setup too, but the RMR was being used too much for it to last long. The gun does so much well that it needed a scope with matching depth of utility.

I have an 18" AR15 with an SS3-9 and an offset RMR, that too is a good setup.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/12/2017 at 20:43
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The ar platform made me a better shooter in general . With the market flooded with parts when I decided to build . It peaked my interest and made me research each subject and component in detail . Along the way stumbling into great info . It's been fun and wish I worked at a firearms manufacturer.
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To a bolt gun guy, the recent trend toward AR-izing a bolt gun is perplexing. I am not a huge fan of taking a perfectly good bolt gun and throwing it in a chassis to make it feel like an AR. The ergonomics just aren't as comfortable to me.

Old dog, new trick, maybe.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2017 at 13:29
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Just to put things into perspective on this topic.
Last week I decided to drag the MP44 (the first real modern mass produced assault rifle) out and put about 90 rounds through it just to remember what it is like to shoot it.
The first thing you notice about the MP44 is how heavy it is compared to the M16. The second thing you notice is how awkward it is to handle compared to the M16, I mean it's a big rifle. The third thing you notice is that when the magazine is in the rifle it is almost impossible to go prone, and it is impossible to shoot off a bench.
On the plus side, the controls were easy to reach and well thought out. While we would say the magazine release is on the wrong side, it comes from a time when magazines are retained, because the 3 to 6 you were issued are all you're going to get.
Shooting the MP44 in semi is where it shines. I could hit a steel plate target at 150yds if I did my part with ease, and recoil was light. Full auto was controllable, but more suitable to close range engagements. The draw back is you have to hold the magazine well with the support hand instead of the forearm. The forearm is just sheet metal, and soon heats up so you can't touch it. This adds to the awkwardness of handling.
Now to the 8x33 Kurtz cartridge. At 150yds it was fine, and it was designed for ranges out to 400yds plus, but I couldn't try it out at that range since I couldn't shoot off of the bench, because of the magazine length.
The original designers wanted a 6.5 to 7mm x 33mm cartridge, but the German Army wanted a 8mm bullet to be compatible with manufacturing ammunition components. Only the case heads were the same though, since the cases were shorter than standard 8mm ammo, and the 8mm Kurtz bullet was about 50grs lighter than 8mm Mauser ammo. Sound familiar?
Now in WWII if I could have picked any infantry weapon I wanted, the MP44would have been in my top 5 picks; 2 if you dropped squad autos and machine guns.
While the M16 wasn't my favorite for a long time, I have warmed up to it. As a patrol rifle/carbine the AR15 and .223/5.56 is an excellent choice. For a battle rifle the M16 family beats the MP44, but I think it is time for a new cartridge.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2017 at 07:04
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One thing about the AR platform, it can be very accurate for a semi auto.  I have a Ruger piston driven. It is easy to shoot .75 in groups, and its their plain Jane model. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/16/2017 at 12:24
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Mine wears a nightforce 2.5-10x42 (and a PEQ15) and it is a good fit. Then again, mine is a 16" barrel piston gun, it is a 500 yard gun.

The other scope it wore for awhile was a 6X acog with an RMR on top, I liked that setup too, but the RMR was being used too much for it to last long. The gun does so much well that it needed a scope with matching depth of utility.

I have an 18" AR15 with an SS3-9 and an offset RMR, that too is a good setup.

I've not had hands on a Nightforce in a while... always wanted one, always impressed with the ones I've used.  Definitely in the mix...  good suggestion.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2017 at 16:06
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I like it because you can do so much with it. I have 4. Next one will be an AR10 or something. 

I built an SBR with an 11.5 in barrel, and I love how much more compact it is. I love the 30 round mag, I love its light and doesn't kick. By the time you have a pistol stuck out arm's length, you are further out than an AR with a SB. And you got 30 rounds of ammo. 

The 3 I built are all Anderson lowers. Nothing special, but my SBR is my favorite and most decked out. I have a SW MP15 MOE I like too. 2 of the 3 have ALG triggers with lighter springs, again, nothing special. But better than the one I built that is just mil spec with iron sights, although I shoot that one pretty decent considering I can't see. 

I wouldn't be afraid to use mine on a deer, as long as it wasn't to far away, and I was using a good bullet. I have some 60 grain nosler partitions I loaded for that. 

One other plus for me is my up close eye sight isn't that great, so a red dot beats iron sites on a pistol too. 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2017 at 16:40
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Originally posted by Lockjaw Lockjaw wrote:

I wouldn't be afraid to use mine on a deer, as long as it wasn't to far away, and I was using a good bullet. I have some 60 grain nosler partitions I loaded for that.


Sierra has 65 grain game kings that are a great option as well.  My cousin shot a 3 point (that's 3 on each side for you easterners Bucky ) mule deer with one of those.  I shot in the boiler room and down he went. 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2017 at 16:42
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Originally posted by Lockjaw Lockjaw wrote:

I built an SBR with an 11.5 in barrel, and I love how much more compact it is. I love the 30 round mag, I love its light and doesn't kick. By the time you have a pistol stuck out arm's length, you are further out than an AR with a SB. And you got 30 rounds of ammo.


I love my 11.5 inch 223 as well.  Super handy carbine.  But I don't love the sound, but with my 6.5 TB Ultra 7 it is not to bad. 
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I had my fun with AR15's and am moving on to AR10's.  Yup I hate AR's. Big Grin
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