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IDENTITY OF UNUSUAL VINTAGE BINOCULARS

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HINES1942 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HINES1942 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: IDENTITY OF UNUSUAL VINTAGE BINOCULARS
    Posted: June/30/2018 at 12:50
Hello All

I am looking for some expertise. I have a pair of old unusual binoculars which I think may be German in origin. There are no apparent makers marks other the number on the focus eye pieces and the central column. The central column and the machined ends of the lenses are made from brass painted black. The main body appears to be textured metal, possibly aluminium. Measuring 6.75 inches at their widest the lens glass  is 1.5 inches in diameter. There is a horizontal line in each lens when viewing and they also appear to have a long focal length, not focusing on relatively close views. I have included a photo of the case, I am unsure if this is original. 

Any help would be much appreciated.

Regards

Anne 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/30/2018 at 17:44
Hi and welcome to OT.  Any photos would improve chances of the identification.
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HINES1942 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/01/2018 at 04:45
Hi

There is a 'flickr'  hyperlink below my name which should take you to the photographs.


Regards

Anna 
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vinn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2019 at 08:18
   i looked at your photos.  they look modern. i collect old military binocs.  vin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2019 at 16:16
That binocular is an M. Hensoldt & Sohne, Wetzlar from directly after the turn of the last century.

Bill

PS I would have provided a photo from a book to prove the point, but, once again, this program is doing what IT wants.

The image was in the CORRECT format and HALF the maximum size. Each time I have tried to attach it—FIVE so far—I am told it is ALREADY ATTACHED. At the same time, I am told there was a problem in trying to load it. OT really needs to have a tech writer on staff. Send me your REAL email address and I will send it to you.

I'm at wjc1111@hotmail.com

Finally, thank you for using the word "vintage" as well as it can be used concerning binoculars. When seen on eBay or binocular forums "vintage" usually just means "old," "junk," of both.


Edited by WJC - January/16/2019 at 16:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2019 at 16:46
You trying to use your phone to attach a pic Bill?  If so, and you have used it to attach a picture before it always tries to attach using the same name.  So that may be your issue. 
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2019 at 16:51
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

You trying to use your phone to attach a pic Bill?  If so, and you have used it to attach a picture before it always tries to attach using the same name.  So that may be your issue. 


Thank you, Sir! Nope, that's not the case. The image was on my desktop and all the errors mentioned were accurate. It's so frustrating.

Bill

Also, why does my text start by being bunched up in the right corner, and why can't I try to to edit without my curser failing to mave at all of a minute or two?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2019 at 17:08
When you quote sometimes it posts the text over on the side like that.  One of the bugs that has not been figured out since the forum got messed up last year.  Unhappy  If you hit enter a whole whole bunch of times before starting to type it will sometimes get it in the correct spot. 
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2019 at 17:28
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

When you quote sometimes it posts the text over on the side like that.  One of the bugs that has not been figured out since the forum got messed up last year.  Unhappy  If you hit enter a whole whole bunch of times before starting to type it will sometimes get it in the correct spot. 








thanks for the information!

Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2019 at 19:22
 bill;   at one time there were no "binoc books".   there are collector books on every thing else.  i have a few old ones and work on some.    civil war to korea would be a good span.  vin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2019 at 19:38
Originally posted by vinn vinn wrote:

 bill;   at one time there were no "binoc books".   there are collector books on every thing else.  i have a few old ones and work on some.    civil war to korea would be a good span.  vin





Hi, Vinn:

The photo I was TRYING to send was from Hans Seeger's book. It's in German, but I find it quite valuable. What part of Washington are you from?

Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2019 at 20:47


Vinn:

 

In august 2017, I published, BINOCULARS: Fallacy & Fact. A week ago, I published Understanding & Attaining 3-Axis Binocular Collimation. 100% of the “collimation tips” currently found on the internet are WRONG, dealing ONLY with conditional alignment, which is only accurate at one IPD. It has taken me 43 years, but I’m finally have some success in teaching many “professionals” who profess to know ... but don’t. The first has over 50 photos and illustration; the latter over 70. Both are available on Amazon.com

 

Bill     

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2019 at 21:22
Glad you’re here Bill, I find your posts interesting.
“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2019 at 21:59
Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Glad you’re here Bill, I find your posts interesting.

Thank you so much; I wish all felt the same. But since I refuse (see no need) to polish the truth* in order to make it acceptable to every ego, agenda, and nationality known to man, I often find myself in trouble. I’m often considered self-serving, condescending, arrogant or worse. With so many bino forums full of wannabes spouting more than they know, to make headway with teaching I find I must overdo my credentials and experience just for the chance of connecting with 2% of the observers. But when I can help one person, it makes suffering the slings and arrows all worthwhile.

“The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.”—Winston Churchill.



Edited by WJC - January/16/2019 at 22:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2019 at 07:53
 bill;  I hope this is the proper way to answer your post.  good show with the books.   im more interested in photos,  as far as repair and alinement,   I have a USA tech manual, I can send you the number - when I find it.  have you ever taken a 2 piece lens apart?  the old ones had " that pith" separating the 2 halves,   newer ones have a plastic sheet separator. im not allowed to send pix..  vin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2019 at 11:29
Originally posted by vinn vinn wrote:

 bill;  I hope this is the proper way to answer your post.  good show with the books.   im more interested in photos,  as far as repair and alinement,   I have a USA tech manual, I can send you the number - when I find it.  have you ever taken a 2 piece lens apart?  the old ones had " that pith" separating the 2 halves,   newer ones have a plastic sheet separator. im not allowed to send pix..  vin


I had taken 6 apart and put them back together before leaving Opticalman "A" school, and MANY thereafter. Canada (NOT Canadian) balsam is easier for newbies to work with. If you make a mistake with the thermosetting plastic ... you've got problems. Attached—if the program will ALLOW IT, this time, is a photo of one of my employees using a Navy Lens centering machine at Captain's.

Just tried, won't load, sorry.

Bill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2019 at 11:55
 thanks;  "balsam"  where can I buy some.?   I use to get it out of microscope  sets.  the operation of this form is quite strange.  my photo forum operation is quite simple in Canada and USA.  vin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2019 at 16:16
Originally posted by vinn vinn wrote:

 thanks;  "balsam"  where can I buy some.?   I use to get it out of microscope  sets.  the operation of this form is quite strange.  my photo forum operation is quite simple in Canada and USA.  vin


Try https://www.surplusshed.com/search.php?search=Balsam

 

IF—and ONLY if—you are careful you might try Norland 61 thermosetting plastic. Be SURE the elements are centered before exposing the project to sunlight or an electric infrared source. If you don’t ... you'll be sorry; it’s not forgiving!

 

Bill

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2020 at 03:59
Hi,

Just joined this forum and found your post. The books you published I have just ordered on Amazon, They should be here on Saturday. I have been collecting binoculars on & off for some years and have a about thirty five sets of varying vintages, mostly pre WW2 and WW2 with a few post 1945.

I have four sets of the ZEISS 12x60 'FLAK' observation binoculars and a complete set of the Russian PNB2 (Boxed with accessories and tripod) My favorite is a pair of Hensoldt Astro-Dialyt 18x50 which are quite unusual and are in good condition optically although cosmetically they show their age.

In desperate need of a hobby I have begun to learn optical repair and servicing, to this end I bought at auction several large lots of ww2 binoculars in different states and condition to learn on.

Also I have started to fabricate repro items that I found missing from my 12x60 sets, starting with the ocular raincovers. At the moment I am working on the 3D design for the leitz 7x50 'U-Boat' rubber amour sets. I intend to make the molds from aluminium (note the correct UK spelling).

So thats it from me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John A Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2020 at 04:50

Hi Anne,


As Bill indicated it’s an early Hensoldt. It’s seemingly a prototype (e.g. the lack of markings and see the additional information below)

So it’s rare, of historical interest and potentially valuable to an advanced collector


Hensoldt was one of the main players when prismatic binoculars were commercially introduced at the end of the 19th century

I recently did some research about the origins of the various prism types used in binoculars and posted the details here: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=378895&page=2

see from post #28 on


The main points are:

- in 1893 Ernst Abbe of Zeiss patented the principle of using prisms in binoculars for enhanced stereoscopic effect

- in doing so, his patent covered the use of the existing Porro style prisms

- Zeiss then commenced production in 1894, and other manufacturers had to come up with different prism types to avoid infringement

- competitors were forced to go to various types of roof prisms (which were optically less efficient due to various reflection issues)


Hensoldt was one of the first to respond in 1897 with a binocular using a pentaprism/ triangular prism combination

Then in 1905 Hensoldt commenced to use Abbe-Koenig prisms in it’s new Dialyt models, which were the mainstay of its production up until the 1960’s!

(and then the same basic body and prism combination was offered by Zeiss from 1968 to 2016)


As can be seen from the photos the unit is centre focus and uses an advanced one piece body construction

The horizontal line that you mention in the image is presumedly a consequence of using the pentaprism combination


I’ve not seen any other photos of such a model (though unsurprisingly Bill notes that Seeger has an example in one of his books)

Anne and Terry Vacani have photos and details about a similar Hensoldt prototype, using a more bulky prism system at: http://www.binoculars-cinecollectors.com/html/body_german_p1_.html

go down to the 7th heading. If you click on the link it goes to a 23 page PDF showing detailed disassembly of the unit!


So a true rarity



John


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