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New SWFA SS 3-15x42 FFP

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/07/2013 at 20:23
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Definite competition to the Vortex scopes. Eagerly awaiting some reviews a month from now.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 11:03
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I hope you guys have a lot of these :)  after my outing with the m1000, I plan on grabbing one of these bad boys.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 12:35
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I just had an opportunity to look over a 3-15 while at SWFA.  I twisted some knobs, and looked it over as much as I coulld without it mounted to a rifle.  It is a very well constructed rifle scope with good quality glass... better than I expcected, actually.  I looked at it in all the conditions I could encounter inside a warehouse, and it is impressive.  the Az/El adjustments are typical of all SS products... better than most.  I did not "count" the adjustment range, but believe it to be, again, typical of SS products... once again, better than most.    I love the reticle in functionality.  
This is a modern technology (not Viet Nam era) piece of hardware that compares well to many "top of the line" optics and exceeds some of them.  It is a true value and I would use it with no reservations on any tactical rig.  Of course, it can be used for hunting... all of my "tactical rifles" are hunting rifles.  I am now completely "recalculating" my scope arrangement scheme in order to "make room" for this "bit of kit", as one of my friends called such things.  It fulfills a "hole" that I could not find an appropriate solution for.  This is a "fit", I've truly been searching for.  Glass suitable for all levels of use from bright to very dim, excellent reticle in FFP, toughness that cannot be surpassed, overall quality that costs THOUSANDS more from any other maker.  The negative, I, personally, would like a larger objective... at 15x 42mm objective is on the low side of "adequate", BUT, it is adequate.  A near 3mm exit pupil is certainly adequate.  AND, I, personally, would prefer MOA/MOA, but that combination has always been difficult to find.  

It is a jewel of a scope.  Not perfect, but even my Hensoldt is not perfect.  It is a value, you get more than you paid for.  Not everyone will like it, but no one is perfect...


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 12:50
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KB, you have a Hensoldt?!?! How did you get a Hensoldt?

I also would have preferred a 50mm objective for a 3-15power, but I'm not going to turn my nose up at this deal. Knowing the quality of the SS line, it would be hard to overlook it. I was looking at scopes that cost a lot more than this one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 13:14
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

KB, you have a Hensoldt?!?! How did you get a Hensoldt?

I also would have preferred a 50mm objective for a 3-15power, but I'm not going to turn my nose up at this deal. Knowing the quality of the SS line, it would be hard to overlook it. I was looking at scopes that cost a lot more than this one.

To be honest, I applaud the use of the 42mm objective.  It keeps the scope a fair bit more compact and makes it a little easire to deliver good optical quality on a budget.

Beside, there are already a couple of 3-15x50 and 4-16x50 FFP scopes out there.  Do you know of any other 3-15x42 ones?

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 13:25
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

KB, you have a Hensoldt?!?! How did you get a Hensoldt?

I also would have preferred a 50mm objective for a 3-15power, but I'm not going to turn my nose up at this deal. Knowing the quality of the SS line, it would be hard to overlook it. I was looking at scopes that cost a lot more than this one.


To be honest, I applaud the use of the 42mm objective.  It keeps the scope a fair bit more compact and makes it a little easire to deliver good optical quality on a budget.

Beside, there are already a couple of 3-15x50 and 4-16x50 FFP scopes out there.  Do you know of any other 3-15x42 ones?

ILya

Nope
This scope is on the top of my list of scopes to get, and 8mm is not going to stop me. I just would have preferred 50mm.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 13:40
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

KB, you have a Hensoldt?!?! How did you get a Hensoldt?

I also would have preferred a 50mm objective for a 3-15power, but I'm not going to turn my nose up at this deal. Knowing the quality of the SS line, it would be hard to overlook it. I was looking at scopes that cost a lot more than this one.

To be honest, I applaud the use of the 42mm objective.  It keeps the scope a fair bit more compact and makes it a little easire to deliver good optical quality on a budget.

Beside, there are already a couple of 3-15x50 and 4-16x50 FFP scopes out there.  Do you know of any other 3-15x42 ones?

ILya

Larger or smaller objective is a personal preference... I tend toward larger objective scopes, "compactness" has never been much of an issue with me for most things related to guns.  However, it is adequate, which should imply "good enough"... Simply because I would like a larget objective shouldn't have negative connotations for those who already like the more compact profile... and there are a LOT of those people out there.  I said... it's JUST my preference.  It's not a show stopper.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 14:34
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:



and makes it a little easire to deliver good optical quality on a budget.

ILya


Interesting. I have a hunch why that is but why guess when I can ask an expert.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 14:41
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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:



and makes it a little easire to deliver good optical quality on a budget.

ILya


Interesting. I have a hunch why that is but why guess when I can ask an expert.

Oh good, let me know when you find out...

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 15:11
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:



and makes it a little easire to deliver good optical quality on a budget.

ILya


Interesting. I have a hunch why that is but why guess when I can ask an expert.

Oh good, let me know when you find out...

ILya


Let me know when you get back with yourself.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 16:36
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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:



and makes it a little easire to deliver good optical quality on a budget.

ILya


Interesting. I have a hunch why that is but why guess when I can ask an expert.

Oh good, let me know when you find out...

ILya


Let me know when you get back with yourself.

After a brief consultation with myself...  Big Smile

Take a look at any scope you have.

Imagine where the front focal plane in that scope is (whether it contains a reticle or not).  Typically, it is either right under the turrets or right in front of them.  Estimate how far back from the objective lens that front focal plane is.  For a scope like the new 3-15x42 SS, it is somewhere between four and five inches.  This distance is called the focal length.

All of the light that hits the objective lens, while traversing that distance between the objective lens and the FFP, somehow throttles down to a very small diameter beam.  The lenses in the objective lens system (and their number varies between scopes) are designed to guide the light path in a specific way by having it bend inward for lack of a better term.  The more you have to get the light path to "bend" the harder it is to do so without picking up aberrations.  If the new SS had a larger objective lens with the same overall length, it would be that much harder to keep all of the image artefacts in check.  It would either require additional lenses or more complicated lens shapes.

Of course, for a larger objective lens, you could go with an overall longer scope with a longer objective focal length, but if you make a scope too long you run into other issues, both optical and mechanical.  The rest of the scope's optics would need to scale up accordingly.  The diameter of the focal plane would go up.  Adjustment range would go down (unless you used a larger tube).  Then there would be a mechanical problem with having the mass of the objective bell far forward and away from the mount, putting additional stress on the tube under recoil, etc.

Scope design is an exercise in compromises.  When I see a moderately priced scope that is very short with a large objective lens, I get concerned.  The SS looks like it was designed with an eye out for manufacturability.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 19:03
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Well, ILya, since you put it that way, the new 3-15x42 is perfect for what I need, and at the right price pointBig Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 19:50
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:



and makes it a little easire to deliver good optical quality on a budget.

ILya


Interesting. I have a hunch why that is but why guess when I can ask an expert.

Oh good, let me know when you find out...

ILya


Let me know when you get back with yourself.

After a brief consultation with myself...  Big Smile

Take a look at any scope you have.

Imagine where the front focal plane in that scope is (whether it contains a reticle or not).  Typically, it is either right under the turrets or right in front of them.  Estimate how far back from the objective lens that front focal plane is.  For a scope like the new 3-15x42 SS, it is somewhere between four and five inches.  This distance is called the focal length.

All of the light that hits the objective lens, while traversing that distance between the objective lens and the FFP, somehow throttles down to a very small diameter beam.  The lenses in the objective lens system (and their number varies between scopes) are designed to guide the light path in a specific way by having it bend inward for lack of a better term.  The more you have to get the light path to "bend" the harder it is to do so without picking up aberrations.  If the new SS had a larger objective lens with the same overall length, it would be that much harder to keep all of the image artefacts in check.  It would either require additional lenses or more complicated lens shapes.

Of course, for a larger objective lens, you could go with an overall longer scope with a longer objective focal length, but if you make a scope too long you run into other issues, both optical and mechanical.  The rest of the scope's optics would need to scale up accordingly.  The diameter of the focal plane would go up.  Adjustment range would go down (unless you used a larger tube).  Then there would be a mechanical problem with having the mass of the objective bell far forward and away from the mount, putting additional stress on the tube under recoil, etc.

Scope design is an exercise in compromises.  When I see a moderately priced scope that is very short with a large objective lens, I get concerned.  The SS looks like it was designed with an eye out for manufacturability.

ILya
All true, and I made no reference to price point or complexity, merely that MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE WOULD BE FOR A LARGER OBJECTIVE.  It has advantages I like and am willing to pay for in many instances...  one must choose his poison carefully.  I am willing to sacrifice "cost" for "requirements".  SWFA chose a "market"... I am proud to say that I will be a part of that market.  In choosing a piece of hardware, one must consider all of the options, all of the trades... the objective size is NOT significant enough to "break" the deal on all the other advantages the SS 3-15x42 offers.  The objective size, for ME, is adequate... no detriment.  Near 3.0 exit pupil at max power is plenty good enough for me. Means I could shoot at light levels that would be illegal for most hunting and in cases where night hunting is allowed would be able to shoot at short distances under most moonlight conditions above "dead dark".  There are trades in every scope selection... everything the 3-15x42 offers outweighs the things it does not, for me... for many, my considerations would not be considerations at all... I'm good with that.  If you only shoot in "high light" conditions, 42mm is fine and at 10x it is fine for most people for most low light conditions... for me, a 3mm exit pupil is "good enough", though I would like MORE.  Not a deal breaker and certainly should not concern most shooters..  Few shoot in the dark without additional aids.  I like to push the envelop... under the right conditions.
SWFA made exactly the right choice for the majority of potential users.  I would probably have made the same choice... however, I would have made me ONE with a 56mm objective...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2013 at 20:57
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:



and makes it a little easire to deliver good optical quality on a budget.

ILya


Interesting. I have a hunch why that is but why guess when I can ask an expert.

Oh good, let me know when you find out...

ILya


Let me know when you get back with yourself.


Thanks for taking the time to educate me.

After a brief consultation with myself...  Big Smile

Take a look at any scope you have.

Imagine where the front focal plane in that scope is (whether it contains a reticle or not).  Typically, it is either right under the turrets or right in front of them.  Estimate how far back from the objective lens that front focal plane is.  For a scope like the new 3-15x42 SS, it is somewhere between four and five inches.  This distance is called the focal length.

All of the light that hits the objective lens, while traversing that distance between the objective lens and the FFP, somehow throttles down to a very small diameter beam.  The lenses in the objective lens system (and their number varies between scopes) are designed to guide the light path in a specific way by having it bend inward for lack of a better term.  The more you have to get the light path to "bend" the harder it is to do so without picking up aberrations.  If the new SS had a larger objective lens with the same overall length, it would be that much harder to keep all of the image artefacts in check.  It would either require additional lenses or more complicated lens shapes.

Of course, for a larger objective lens, you could go with an overall longer scope with a longer objective focal length, but if you make a scope too long you run into other issues, both optical and mechanical.  The rest of the scope's optics would need to scale up accordingly.  The diameter of the focal plane would go up.  Adjustment range would go down (unless you used a larger tube).  Then there would be a mechanical problem with having the mass of the objective bell far forward and away from the mount, putting additional stress on the tube under recoil, etc.

Scope design is an exercise in compromises.  When I see a moderately priced scope that is very short with a large objective lens, I get concerned.  The SS looks like it was designed with an eye out for manufacturability.

ILya


Thanks for taking the time to educate me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2013 at 12:42
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Interesting entry. A smaller (vs my 50mm) objective would make it ever so slightly easier to get cheek weld without so much padding/riser. OTOH, a $700 scope with the same glass as my couple-years-old 10x42 seems ...high. Can anyone directly compare this offering with the basically-same-price Weaver Tactical 3-15x50, optically-speaking?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2013 at 12:51
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Originally posted by MZ5 MZ5 wrote:


 OTOH, a $700 scope with the same glass as my couple-years-old 10x42 seems ...high.

 


Your 10x is a fixed power. It is considerably more complex to build a variable power scope. Plus this one has a 5x erector.

Plus you will spend $100 more for the Weaver 3-15x50.

http://swfa.com/Weaver-3-15x50-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P49448.aspx
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2013 at 13:46
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Whatever the 'complexities,' they're all built in to the Japanese-made Weaver already. The Weaver's feature set is also richer, and the objective lens more expensive, assuming same quality. The optical quality difference between the two scopes I mentioned and have on my rifles right now is huge. That's why I asked for/about an optical comparison. Hopefully the SS fixed power line has made large strides in optical quality since I got mine. A side-by-side would tell.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2013 at 15:18
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After looking at the design and reading the information about this optic. For the price this just maybe the setup I need to complete my new Remington 700 in .308. Really like the low end at 3x and 15x will be more than enough for ringing steel at distance.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2013 at 15:28
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Originally posted by MZ5 MZ5 wrote:

Whatever the 'complexities,' they're all built in to the Japanese-made Weaver already. The Weaver's feature set is also richer, and the objective lens more expensive, assuming same quality. The optical quality difference between the two scopes I mentioned and have on my rifles right now is huge. That's why I asked for/about an optical comparison. Hopefully the SS fixed power line has made large strides in optical quality since I got mine. A side-by-side would tell.


But is the Weaver designed to take the beating of a .50 cal and rifles like the M1A?  I would be my left nut that the internals mechanisms between the two scopes are pretty drastic in the reliability dept. 

Not dogging the Weaver, but one of the best parts of the SS line has always been their strength.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2013 at 21:46
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Yes, my fixed non-HD SS seems very stout.  Kinda mushy, but stout.  I haven't clubbed any baby seals with either it or the Weaver, but the Weaver _feels_ at least equally stout.  Only time can answer your question about durability.  I'm dialing them both back and forth all day at least a couple days a month.  My SS sits on a heavy 223, so if it ever fails for any reason at all, I'll deem it deficient in comparison to a Tasco Varmint. Big Grin Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2013 at 15:50
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Glad to see this scope offered. I have been using the Weaver/Nitrex Super Slam/TR2 3-15x42 for a similar alternative. Of course they are 2nd FP with MOA turrets. But the configuration is excellent IMHO for an all around hunting scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/13/2013 at 17:03
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So, the $699.99 question...what time on the 25th can we click "add to cart" ? :)

Ready for a scope that I don't have to send back via UPS lol
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2013 at 19:35
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Maybe I am looking at it wrong, but it looks like to me this is a fast focus eye piece without the lock.  That is one of the things I really like about the 5-20, let be honest, once you set the focus on the eye piece you are not going to really be moving it.  Am I just seeing things?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2013 at 20:13
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Originally posted by Shoalwater Shoalwater wrote:

Maybe I am looking at it wrong, but it looks like to me this is a fast focus eye piece without the lock.  That is one of the things I really like about the 5-20, let be honest, once you set the focus on the eye piece you are not going to really be moving it.  Am I just seeing things?

That is correct.  All of the scopes in the Classic line have fast focus eyepieces.  What I usually do is slip a flip up cap onto the eyepiece after focusing it.  It holds the adjustment ring in place just fine (although I have never had one of the SS scopes shift eyepiece focus on me without it either).

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2013 at 04:52
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First the important stuff:

Reticle calibration and click value measure accurate within 0.5%.  Reticle is square with the movement of the turrets within 1/2 degree.  Tracking has been perfectly repeatable so far. 

Total elevation travel of my example:  41 Mils    26 Mils "up" available after a 100 yd zero when mounted in a 20 MOA mount.  Now they only advertise 36 total so they may not all have as much as mine does, I'm just reporting what I see.










The reticle on 3X, 10X and 15X:







At the range:

Size comparison with SS 3-9 and 5-20HD:







It was a dark, gloomy day at the range which is not good for pictures.  So don't attempt to judge the glass quality from these pics as it's impossible to take good pics through a scope in such conditions.

100 yds:





300 yds:







A couple 100 and 300 yd targets:



I was in somewhat of a hurry and not doing my best shooting, but even so 39 of 40 rounds went sub MOA.

The eye relief on this scope is by far the best of all the Classic line, longer and more friendly than the well known fixed models.  This will make the scope well suited for hard kicking hunting rifles among other things.

I haven't spent much time comparing glass yet, but it looks at first blush pretty good, clearly the overall best of the Classic line.  I was able to see the 6mm holes in the paper at 300 yds without too much trouble.  But yes, you can see quite a bit more detail with the 5-20 HD as you should with more magnification and higher price.

All in all I'm quite impressed with the scope for the price.  Knowing how durable the classic line is, with all that elevation travel it has, this scope can do most things up to and including ELR use without spending a lot of money.
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