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Original Leupold Mojave - Keepers?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2016 at 23:39
Agar426 View Drop Down
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My first pair of binoculars was a pair of Leupold Wind River Mesas in 8x42.  I eventually got a pair of Leupold Mojaves the 10x42, the model prior to the BX-3.  Although twice the money as the Mesas, I never really thought they were much better.  I can't seem to squeeze the last bit of focus out of them, and I can't seem to get the "circles to come together as one" (my apologies on not knowing the proper terminology!!), so I get a double image from time to time.  

Questions:

1.  Are the pre-BX-3 Mojaves lemons?  Or am I using them wrong?
2.  I don't have the money for Swarovskis, and I am trying to save up for a pair of 15x or 20x.  But...I use the 10x a lot, and I am thinking that I may replace the Mojaves.  I have looked at the Viper HDs....are these a step up, or lateral?  Any other options in the Viper HD price range?
3.  Money wise, I can get two pairs of Vipers in 10x and 15x for just a little more than the Kaibab 15x....is this money well spent, or should I save up and get the Kaibabs and hang on to the Mojaves?
4.  Any other thoughts?

Thank you!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2016 at 13:15
WJC View Drop Down
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161031

Hi Alex:

Not being able to: “squeeze the last bit of focus out of them” could mean you are not focusing the telescopes in the right order. On the vast majority of binos, the left telescope is the one that should be focused first—they were designed that way. For a good image, it’s not optional.

Also, some folks will note that not having enough focus travel is indicative of at least one objective lens needing to be recessed in the housing a bit; that’s not a job for armchair opticians, and the qualified might charge more than the instrument is worth.

Finally, you should not be getting “a double image ‘from time to time.’” If you see a double image while close focusing on insects or very close targets, things are as they should be—you are crossing your eyes. When you do that, you will always be unable to get the “circles” overlapping, even though the image you seek may be just fine. The deal about the “circles” is an “old wive’s tale” that should be left with the “old wives.” If, however, you’re getting a double image on distant targets, the bino is out of collimation.

If the problem is truly sporadic, it means they are only slightly out of collimation and your spatial accommodation is—from time to time—making the image acceptable for you. Depending too much on spatial accommodation can lead to eye strain and headaches.

Finally, there’s certainly no need to apologize for not knowing the proper terminology. Many of those who post the most about optics don’t know the correct terminology. Thus, you are to be commended for your honesty.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2016 at 13:24
koshkin View Drop Down
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I am not sure what your application is for the 15x binos, but keep in mind that they have to be mounted on something.  Handholding them is not really viable.  In terms of image quality, if you really need 15x, get the Kaibab.  15x Viper is good for the money, but is not close.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2016 at 13:42
Agar426 View Drop Down
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Thanks for the input!  Ok here we go.... :

I am focusing the left eye first with the binos focus adjustment.  Once it is in focus, I adjust the right eye piece with the adjuster that pops out from the main focus.  I can see the change in the right eye piece, so I believe I have the right order.  Let me be clear.....it's not "out of focus."  It's just not as sharp as I would like it to be.  Yesterday, while glassing for deer, I found what I thought might be a deer, or....it could have been a log.  It wasn't a mile away, it was a few hundred yards away, and it was in the shadows, etc, so it wasn't "easy" to see.  But, I want to be able to answer that question more definitively.  Like I said before, it's the last 5% that is giving me trouble.  I have looked through higher binos, and they seem to focus to a more "finite" degree.  They truly aren't any better with regard to focus than my Mesas.  They are brighter, and the colors are better, they just don't focus any better.

As for the double images, I don't know what the image is supposed to look like through roof prism binos, but....I am of the thought that it starts out looking like a Venn diagram, and as I adjust the chassis, the two circles come together into one circle.  This also turns two images into one image.  On these binos, that sweet spot is tiny.  Is that normal, or is this pair slightly out of collimation?  Or, are my expectations unreasonable?  Again, it's the last 5% that's the issue. 

As for the 15x, my planned application is for hunting, and they will be used on a tripod.  I currently use my 10x42 Mojaves for this, but their magnification isn't enough to locate animals in the shadows at great distances.  I realize a spotting scope is best for truly judging trophy quality.  I am not a guide or outfitter, so if it looks big in 15x binos, then it's big enough to stalk! ;)

Thanks again to everyone!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2016 at 14:31
WJC View Drop Down
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The image should look no different than in a Porro.

"Let me be clear.....it's not "out of focus."  It's just not as sharp as I would like it to be."

Still, if you are at the END of your focus travel, and you can't make it go any farther‚—yet need to—the issue still may be focus.

I perceive you may be expecting your body to do what the bino should be doing for you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2016 at 14:48
Agar426 View Drop Down
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Interesting.....ok, so let me ask this.  By saying "end" of your focus travel, are you implying that the focus wheel is no longer turning having reached the end of its travel?  If so, that isn't the case.  Think of it this way....let's say for a given distance, there is a "sweet spot" where the image is in crisp focus.  Let's call this point "0," with it the numbers going something like this: -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, with the further away from 0 you go, in either direction, the more out of focus the image is.  The issue I am having is there is no 0, it goes from -1 to 1 (or -.5 to .5).  That sweet spot is just a little bitter if you will.  It's not horrible by any means, so maybe that's just the way they are?  I seem to remember there being some press about the pre-BX-3 Mojaves as being only so-so glass for the money, but all the stuff I find now is based on the current version of the Mojaves, and how they compare to the Pro Guide version.

I have been eyeballing the Kaibabs for a few years, but every time I am ready to plop down the money, I get something yakking in my ear that causes me to re-visit the issue.  Whether it be a different brand that pops up, or the fact that they released a 20x version of the Kaibabs, or someone telling me they got the SLCs for "half price" and that I should hold out for a deal.  Something seems to be getting in my way of getting some big eyes!

WJC - I don't understand your comment about my body doing what the bino should be doing.  Please explain.  If my current binos are simply being used incorrectly, or need some minor tweaking, that could be the ticket!

Thanks again!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2016 at 15:41
WJC View Drop Down
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First:

If you can move the focus wheel 5 diopters either side of your best focus, "focus travel" is not your problem and can be removed from your thinking. Focus travel has nothing to do with the focus wheel, and everything to do with the fore and aft movement of the eyepiece.

Second, your body:

Via your ciliary muscles, you have two kinds of physiological "accommodation." Accommodation (in general) occurs when your brain takes too long for you to reach a focus and causes the ciliary muscles to relax or compress the eyeball to bring things into focus more quickly. Learning to stare, and let the binocular's focus mechanism do its job, is something all observers need to do.

In Spatial Accommodation, those same muscles may cross the eyes or slightly separate the lines of sight to bring two images together. This, too, can lead to eyestrain and headaches, depending on the magnitude of the spatial disparity. Of the myriad Internet offerings to help people "collimate" their binocular, ONLY one fellow, Spain's Rafael Chamon Cobos, has a clue what he is talking about. The rest deal not with clinical 3-axis collimation, but conditional alignment—SPIE paper 8491, 2012.

From an upcoming book:

... A study of how much binoculars can be misaligned before the observer finds it objectionable can be found in the 1977 work of M.A. Ostrovskaya, N.M. Putyatina, and I.N. Krivenko. They tested 16 subjects of various ages and their conclusion, published in the October 1978 Soviet Journal of Optical Technology, was as follows:

“The maximum allowable deviation from parallelism of the ray bundles from the eyepieces in binoculars lie within the 30-50 arc minute interval in the case of binocular axis non-parallelism in the vertical plane, 40-60 arc minutes for axis convergence in the horizontal plane and 100-130 minutes when they diverge.”






Edited by WJC - November/01/2016 at 11:21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2016 at 21:36
Agar426 View Drop Down
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Thanks for the replies and explanations!  I was on travel for work, and am just now getting back to this thread, so my apologies for the late responses.

Any thoughts on the original Mojaves themselves?  I seem to recall reading up on them when they first came out, and they were regarded as being simply "ok" binos for their price, but I can't find any of that, so I could be mis-remembering.  Also, the fact that they released an upgrade not too long afterward makes me wonder.  I was out hunting today for my own hunt, and I think my main issue is focusing the right eye.  It doesn't seem to have that sweet spot.

I did get to look through a pair of Viper HDs in 10x42.  Of course they looked great inside the store, but I haven't seen through them outdoors.  

Thanks again for the help!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2016 at 10:41
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It seems to me the focus may need some work.  Just get on the phone, call Leupold and explain the focus issue.  That kind of thing has some leeway to be adjusted.  Vortex, for example did that for me some years ago on an original Viper 10x42. 

The original Mojave has always been a good seller for Leupold, one of the reasons they improved the design, twice, once with the BX-3 and again with the Pro Guide.

Again, call Leupold.  They will fix it.  They take a backseat to nobody in service and warranty issues.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2016 at 08:45
Agar426 View Drop Down
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Klamath, that makes a lot of sense.....

Thanks everyone for the feedback and input!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2016 at 09:55
WJC View Drop Down
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Mayday, Mayday:

You should never post when your sleep account is overdrawn. Above, I gave spatial accommodation to the ciliary muscles. Actually, spatial accommodation is handled by the Lateral or Medial Rectus muscles. They handle the lateral movement of the eyeball. The ciliary muscles shape the eyeLENS. Sorry ‘bout that.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2016 at 10:06
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Originally posted by WJC WJC wrote:

Mayday, Mayday:<p ="Msonormal">You should never post when your sleep account is overdrawn. Above, I gave spatial accommodation to the ciliary muscles. Actually, spatial accommodation is handled by the Lateral or Medial Rectus muscles. They handle the lateral movement of the eyeball. The ciliary muscles shape the eyeLENS. Sorry ‘bout that.



<p ="Msonormal"> 







.

Bill, Medial Rectus had me worried for a minute. 😎
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2016 at 10:57
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And, at our ages, you should be worried! Smile
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Edited by WJC - November/07/2016 at 11:13
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