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Precision handgun for $600???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2012 at 19:02
jselsor View Drop Down
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I have never really pushed myself to improve my pistol accuracy. I am looking for a very accurate hand gun with a crisp trigger. Kind of a new begining to improving my close range lethalness Big Grin 
I love the looks of 1911's but dont really like how most feel in my hand.  Springfeild XDM catches my eye. Any thoughts or opinion would be appreciated. You all always help me spend my money wiselySmile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/21/2012 at 22:05
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I would recommend that whatever you get, also get a good precision .22 LR pistol, so you'll be able to practice more often with much less expense.  I love the S&W M 41.  I have one, and it's the most accurate .22 pistol I've ever shot, but it's expensive.  I'm also a fan of the Ruger Mark series pistols, and the MK III Target or Competition is a good choice.

As for centerfire autos, I'm a fan of Sig P series, mainly because I shoot them well (or, I've just been lucky with them), but everyone has their own preferences.  I also like the now-discontinued H&K P7 series "squeeze cocker" pistols, but they too are pretty expensive.  The grip feel of a P7 is perfect for me, and that, in combination with the low barrel axis, fixed barrel, polygonal rifling, and excellent trigger has been very good to me in the accuracy dept.  Both have been extremely reliable, running without a single FTF or hiccup in 1000's of rounds fired.

I don't have a Springfield XDM, but I like the way the grip feels, and folks I know who do own one seem to like it. 

EDIT:  I just realized your $600 limit in the thread title after I typed this.  Within that budget, I would highly consider the CZ 75.  You didn't specify what caliber choice(s) you're considering.


Edited by RifleDude - April/21/2012 at 22:12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2012 at 00:23
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I carry/conceal a S&W 642/.38 +P airweight snubby in the summer & a S&W 640/357cal snubby in the winter.The accuracy of any gun comes from PRACTICE,PRACTICE & more you guessed it" Practice"
I owned & shot the original Springfield XD,a great gun but to me it will never compare to any of my 1911's.You might want to try holding a Colt[officer's model]it might be just the ticket for you.I'm old school & I've been shooting 1911's since I was in the service back in 1965.My favorite carry 1911 is my Colt TALO commander,has all the advantages of my full sze 1911 without the additional weight!
 
Did I mention my most accurate gun is the one that I PRACTICE,PRACTICE oh ya & PRACTICE with?
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2012 at 03:16
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+1 Rifledude
 
It's hard to beat a .22 for learning how to improve  your pistol shooting.  The Ruger .22 auto is one of the best, and it's very reasonable in price.  Just be sure the model you get balances comfortably in your hand, has the sight radius that works best with your eyes, and has a good trigger.  It's unlikely that you will learn to shoot better than it does!
 
Crisp triggers?  The best triggers I've found on duty-caliber handguns are on tuned S&W .357 revolvers.  Tuned .45 automatics come in next.  The best full-caliber semi-auto factory trigger I've seen was on a Colt Gold Cup that came straight from the factory in the early 80's.  Stickbow46's recommendation that you try a Commander-size .45 is a good one.  It's more comfortable for many (including me) than a full-sized .45 automatic.
 
If you want to do much target shooting with your full-caliber gun, it should weigh in the neighborhood of 30 to 40 ounces.  Anything more or less will wear you out pretty fast.
 
My personal favorites in handguns are S&W revolvers in .357 and .44 magnum.  You can load 'em light for target shooting, or heavy for defense.  They're a breeze to reload for, and you don't have to chase brass.  While automatics rule on the target range (for capacity and other reasons),  these revolvers will shoot the center out of a target with ease, and defend your life with absolute reliability.   A Ruger Single Six .22 makes a great practice gun if you decide to go with a revolver.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2012 at 11:37
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RifleDude is correct, the S&W 41 is an OUTSTANDING pistol, but expensive.  Let me suggest the S&W 22a.  It is 90% of the 41, but 1/4 the cost...  I've fired over 1000 rounds through mine with never a jam.  After a couple of bricks of 22LR, I'll probably clean it...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2012 at 12:12
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If you are used to rifle triggers you may be better off with a 1911 style .45ACP because of its light single action trigger.  $600 for a handgun eliminates most of the really good stuff. It does leave Glocks, Springfield XD pistols and is getting close to Ruger's 1911 and Taurus's 1911.  I have learned to like glocks a lot but you either love them or hate them and for many years I turned up my nose at those plastic pistols. I have been carrying a Glock on duty for many years now and it has held up to a lot of abuse. The Glock 35 is the target version with a 3.5Lb trigger in 40 S&W and the Glock 34 is the target version in 9mm.  Left to my preference I would be just fine carrying a 44 mag Smith and Wesson but the more energy the pistol cartridge has the better I like the caliber consequently I no longer wish to own anything in 9mm or .380 and am happier with a 45acp than a 40 and happier with a 44 mag than a .357mag but you should pick based on what your needs are and if you will only ever shoot paper the least expensive ammo may make the choice for you. So one size does not fit all. I suggest you attempt to shoot something in the caliber you are considering before buying. Also go to youtube and watch the Hickock45 videos.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2012 at 12:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2012 at 12:18
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define precision in a handgun, then define handgun
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2012 at 16:25
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Okay, Dale.  Even though you are referring to another post I'll throw some thoughts out there to start the discussion.
 
Precision for a target handgun:  All  shots within the X-Ring at maximum range (usually 25 yards).  The tighter the group the better, with a one-hole group being the "holy grail".
 
Precision for a full-size defensive handgun:  All shots within a maximum of 4" at 25 yards.  (I prefer 2.5".)  Reliability is critically important. 
 
Precision for a lightweight pocket-sized automatic.  All shots within the eye-nose triangle at 10  feet.  Reliability is critically important.
 
"Handgun".  My personal  definition is any gun with a barrel short enough for comfortable belt-holster carry that can be shot accurately with one hand. 
 
Others may stretch the definition of a "handgun" so far that it includes any heavy automatic weapon that Arnold Schwarzeneger can "shoot" with one hand in the movies.  But I won't.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2012 at 17:14
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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not what you consider--- the orginal poster,
don't know what guns he is considering or not.
A precision pistol to me will shoot under 1"  at 100 yds, (T/C, merrel, XP)
a bullseye 45  1" at 25,  etc.--- but certainly these are out of the price range given.
does the op want a 22LR? the op needs to qualify the question.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2012 at 19:34
jselsor View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

not what you consider--- the orginal poster,
don't know what guns he is considering or not.
A precision pistol to me will shoot under 1"  at 100 yds, (T/C, merrel, XP)
a bullseye 45  1" at 25,  etc.--- but certainly these are out of the price range given.
does the op want a 22LR? the op needs to qualify the question.

In my original post I refer to an interest in Springfield XD and 1911's on a budget of $600. I currently own a glock 17 and shoot it Okay however I am looking to improve my overall handgun precision. I guess I have been watching to much TOP SHOT Smile I know the glock 17 is a good reliable handgun but Im looking for a fresh new gun that I can pursue my goal with. I am entertaining a ruger 1911 and eventually investing in the Mrk III 45 grip to practice with. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2012 at 21:19
RifleDude View Drop Down
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I interpreted from your statement "I love the looks of 1911's but dont really like how most feel in my hand" that you had ruled out 1911s.  It's hard to shoot a pistol well that doesn't feel right to you. One advantage to the 1911, besides the huge variety of aftermarket parts for the platform, is the fact there are several good 1911 style .22's or (in the case of the MK III 22-45) have a 1911 style grip shape, so your inexpensive rimfire practice reinforces the feel and indexing of your defensive pistol.


Edited by RifleDude - April/22/2012 at 21:27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2012 at 07:57
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still at a loss for your precision. none of the guns you have mentioned will be more precise that the glock. not going to happen in a factory pistol, at the least the 9mm is cheaper to practice with. If your referring to a type of precision that has no time factor involved, the one with the longest sight plane and best sites, will be the winner.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2012 at 08:36
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

I interpreted from your statement "I love the looks of 1911's but dont really like how most feel in my hand" that you had ruled out 1911s.  It's hard to shoot a pistol well that doesn't feel right to you. One advantage to the 1911, besides the huge variety of aftermarket parts for the platform, is the fact there are several good 1911 style .22's or (in the case of the MK III 22-45) have a 1911 style grip shape, so your inexpensive rimfire practice reinforces the feel and indexing of your defensive pistol.
 
It is the top of the grip that feels weird to me. I believe they call it the beaver tail. I recently shot my friends 1911. I dont recall the name but it was a cheap no frills gun and I shot it much better then my G17. I plan on doing some speed shooting at steal plates. I like the idea of getting a ruger 22 to practice with since PRACTICE is the keySmile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2012 at 13:35
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That's the grip safety.  It provides an extra measure of mechanical safety when carrying in "cocked and locked" mode and the top of the grip safety prevents hammer bite on the web between your thumb and forefinger.  All current 1911's have it.

I'm with Dale on the "precision" thing.  No defensive auto pistol in typical "carry" form is really what I would call a "precision" weapon, though "precision" is a relative term.  Those that are geared more toward "precision" are along the lines of the tricked-out .38 Super 1911's and the various custom built 1911s, all of which cost several times your budget.  Generally a "precision" pistol would have a longer sight radius, adjustable sights, and a tighter parts fit than is typically seen on a carry pistol.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2012 at 15:00
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Shooting precision with a pistol is hard to define and do anyway because typically you are shooting from a standing or some other funky position and hold the gun in your hands.  The slightest and I mean slightest movement when you depress the trigger can move your POI dramatically.  There are so many things in your technique that can throw a shot it is crazy. 

You have to be an exceptional shooter with prefect technique to be able to really exceed the accuracy potential of even a factory pistol. 

Unless you are very good I have a hard time believing your are outshooting your Glock.  And I don't mean that derogatory towards you.

Unless you are very good I think it has a lot more to do with the shooter than the gun.  When a person is very good they can benefit from the better pistol. 

I have had Glocks, 1911s, XDs, Rugers, Walther, Sigs, XDMs, and I was able to shoot them all pretty much the same. 

HAve you consider putting a 3.5# connector in your glock?  That could make a world of diff for you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2012 at 16:47
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Quick post, skipping what everyone else said, maybe mine will agree, maybe not.


Get an accurate 22LR with controls same/similar to what you normally carry/shoot, and shoot like crazy, lots of practice. Lots!

If this is a comp gun, hard to beat a Glock (much as I hate them) unless you really spend the $$ and go with a custom setup.  If it is a carry gun, shoot the 22 LR lots, and get a good sights on your carry gun and know where your carry gun puts rounds.  "In a fight, front site", you'll be lucky to remember that, but try.

Combat handguns don't need to be tack drivers (and often tack drivers suffer ailments that can get you killed in a gun fight.)

A "precision" $600 handgun doesn't exist, not even in the 22LR game - assuming we mean the same thing by "precision."

Good enough is what works best in handguns.  Because, at the end of the day, a handgun is the tool you use to get back to your rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2012 at 16:48
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HAve you consider putting a 3.5# connector in your glock?  That could make a world of diff for you.
[/QUOTE]
 
I dont really intend on doing much to the ol gen 1 glock. I am a paramedic and gone for 24+ hours at a time and intend on leaving it in the night stand perminatly for the wife since she has handled it many times. She loves that 30 round mag!!!! Good thing 9mm ammo is cheap! I figured you all would be the last ones to talk me out of a new rigSmile  I carry my ruger lcr daily but it is a snubby 
 
 The WifeExcellent
 
I am really torn between ruger sr 1911, Glock35, or Springfield XDM
 
What do you all think will be the easiest to learn to shoot well?
 
I am not dead set on 9,40 or 45
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2012 at 16:52
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Good enough is what works best in handguns.  Because, at the end of the day, a handgun is the tool you use to get back to your rifle.
[/QUOTE]
 
I will likely steal this one from you. I like it!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2012 at 17:31
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Good enough is what works best in handguns.  Because, at the end of the day, a handgun is the tool you use to get back to your rifle.

Best post of 2012!! 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2012 at 22:59
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:


I love watching his videos.  I've watched all 600 something. Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2012 at 08:25
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Clint Smith quote from Thunder Ranch is pretty famous, but smith also prefers some rather oddball stuff from what is practical for most shooters. have/shoot a glock 35 and although they look larger are the same dimensions as a 1911. also have a 26,20,19,38,23, and next to the 34 is the easiest to shoot well. Without taking an instruction class the 1911 are the hardest to learn well. Carrying a race gun (really nice 1911) for defense is llike taking a race car to a tractor pull. Carrying a mid level 1911 is a waste of time unless you've trained with them.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2012 at 09:34
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It is someone else's quote, I just repeat it to sound smart and salty - but a very true statement nonetheless.

A few thoughts:

1.  FBI stats for shootings involving law enforcement show that if your carry gun (without a safety) is taken away from you, you have almost no time to recover it before a bad guy sends rounds down range.  Those same statistics say if your carry gun WITH a safety is taken, you have about 17 seconds to recover it before the bad guy starts shooting.

For me, that translates to a few things.  First, my primary sidearm has a safety. Always. And any backup or pocket pistol usually does not.  If I let someone take a backup gun out of my pocket, I have little chance of winning that fight either way.

2.  A 1911, like many other things in life, is easy to shoot, difficult to master.  If one does not wish to put in many, many hours in training and many thousands of rounds down range, it is not the best platform for carry or use for home defense.  I almost never recommend 1911s, especially to those who learned to shoot on Glocks or similar.

A 1911 can be exceptionally accurate and 100% reliable, but both take intentional effort.

3.  Since we seem to be moving away from "precision" and toward "defense", my recommendations will change.  One important question: do you have kids?  That'll change everything.

4.  I strongly recommend you shoot anything before you buy it.  Handling something tells you a little, shooting it tells you much, much more.

All for now, but more to follow, probably.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2012 at 09:57
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the subject moved away from precision when time entered the equation (steel plate shooting). Game shooting shouldn't be ruled out, not all handguns need be defensive in posture. Children really changes the picture however.  They make exceptional moving targets. Or if this is unsatisfactory, they train easily for reloading,picking up brass, or a  basis for a need to go out and show the kids how to shoot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2012 at 11:08
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For $600 if you want a precision pistol to punch the x-ring out of a bullseye target, then really your only choice is a S&W Mod. 15 or Mod. 25; prefferably a 6 inch barrell. Either will work as a defensive weapon too. You can use them both for competition as well, but you will be at a disadvantage if competing straight up with auto pistols.
Now if you have more money, and different requirements, then things change.
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