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Precision handgun for $600???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2012 at 12:20
Longhunter View Drop Down
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Bottom Line:
 
If you want to learn to shoot well, get a .22.  It will show you what you are doing wrong without the distraction of excess noise and recoil.  The skills will transfer to your full-caliber handgun.
 
If your full-caliber handgun doesn't shoot well for you after you shoot "expert" scores with a .22, try changing your hold and technique.  If that doesn't work, try other full-caliber handguns until you find one you can shoot well.
 
I'm with Dale and Rancid on the 1911.  It's not the best choice for a carry gun unless you shoot it regularly and well!  Don't forget that your other family members may need to use it, and they probably won't know (or remember) how, unless they also shoot it regularly and well.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2012 at 14:16
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First of all
 I agree with everyone that precision is not the appropriate word for this post. I should have used accurate user friendly semi auto hand gun.
 
My goal is to sharpen my hand gun skills improving my accuracy first and speed second). When I shoot I want people to nod and think that guy can flat shoot!!!!!!!!!!!!! I enjoy the heck out of shooting steel. (always wear glasses) I also like shooting bulls. I cant really put a limit on my intentional uses because I enjoy ALL types of shooting/reloading. My gut tells my glock is the best bang for my buck.  
 
/QUOTE]
3.  Since we seem to be moving away from "precision" and toward "defense", my recommendations will change.  One important question: do you have kids?  That'll change everything.
/QUOTE]
 
I do have one son who is 6 months old and another bun in the oven. (I got a little carried away on Valentines day)Big Smile 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2012 at 17:23
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I would look at the the S&W M&P system, there is a .22 lr model and any of the centerfire guns can be found with safeties, this includes the new Shield that can be carried as back up piece or off duty.
There are lots of variations and they all form part of a true system.
Good holsters are available for the various variations, this is much more important than most think.
Mitch Rosen and other quality boutique makers are turning out a wide variety of quality holsters, not cheap but good quality, even the Kydex guys are making really good holsters.
Many gunsmiths are familiar with the M&P and aftermarket sights and parts are readily available should you want to customize your gun to make it more usable.
Hell, even several large departments in Belgium have have adopted the M&P!
S&W's customer service has improved should you ever have to use it, they will actually try to help you unlike another company who will tell you "it must be the ammo" even though you are using the loads they recommended.
Art

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2012 at 22:16
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Originally posted by jselsor jselsor wrote:

First of all
 I agree with everyone that precision is not the appropriate word for this post. I should have used accurate user friendly semi auto hand gun.
 
My goal is to sharpen my hand gun skills improving my accuracy first and speed second). When I shoot I want people to nod and think that guy can flat shoot!!!!!!!!!!!!! I enjoy the heck out of shooting steel. (always wear glasses) I also like shooting bulls. I cant really put a limit on my intentional uses because I enjoy ALL types of shooting/reloading. My gut tells my glock is the best bang for my buck.  
 
/QUOTE]
3.  Since we seem to be moving away from "precision" and toward "defense", my recommendations will change.  One important question: do you have kids?  That'll change everything.
/QUOTE]
 
I do have one son who is 6 months old and another bun in the oven. (I got a little carried away on Valentines day)Big Smile 
 
You won't hear it too often but I'll throw it out there. Consider the Beretta M92. There are several reasons the military uses them to train thousands of soldiers. They are one of the safest semi-autos out there with the decocker safety. They have a good three dot sight picture and they have proven to suit most any size hand. I've seen many guys and girls who have never shot a hand gun go from nervous terrible shots to marksmen in less than an afternoon. They are also one of the simplest to clean and maintain. I can vouch that they are very accurate from personal experience. They have proven extremely durable and reliable. If I would point out any down side it is they are full size carry and alittle heavier than most of the newer pieces out there. But I like the weight myself because it lessens recoil and helps me with a steadier aim.
Since you already have a 9mm it would simplify you ammo needs. If you spend reasonable time with it you will soon see what I mean by accurate. And you don't neccessarily have to buy a new one. I have had several used ones and all have proven to be great guns. You can usually pick up a used blue base model 92 for 4 to 500.00 and if you want fancy you can spend alittle more for a 92F stainless. Another plus is mags are fairly abundant and inexpensive compared to other models.
One thing I have found about the 92 from experienced shooters is you either love it or totally hate it. Obviousily I love em, they have proven to be my go to gun and I can shoot just about anything. See if you can find one for a try out and do it on a day when you've got ample time to spend getting to know it. Try to shoot atleast 50 to 100 rounds to give it a fair trial.
Good Luck!! Let us know what you go with.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2012 at 22:35
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From all user reports I've heard, the M&P is a very nice carry gun.  I know several people who own one, and they have nothing negative to say about it.  It seems like a well sorted out design.  I really like its ergonomics.  I haven't shot one enough to offer anything more than an initial impression.

I do believe that a .22 pistol is an invaluable tool for improving your overall handgun shooting skills.  Regardless of what CF pistol you end up buying, I'd definitely budget enough to also get a good .22.

I don't know if I agree on the extra mechanical safety thing.  It's just one more thing to slow down your reaction time at a moment when fine motor skills will likely be impaired somewhat.  Yes, lots of practice and familiarity does compensate, but fewer steps to engagement is still fewer steps, even if the difference is only a fraction of a second.  If a bad guy gets close enough to me to wrestle away my weapon, unless he concealed his criminal intent very well up to the last instant before invading my space or he sneaks up behind me without me knowing he was coming, already knew beforehand that I was carrying, and where I was carrying, I'd say the safety will likely be off at that moment anyway, because I'd have already sent a few rounds downrange.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2012 at 22:43
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I used to own a Beretta 92FS, until my brother wanted it more than I did and bought it from me.  Mine shot well indeed, and proved to be reliable.  There were things I liked about it, but for a CCW gun, I personally want something a bit more compact.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2012 at 23:38
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IMHO the Beretta 92 SF is a very nice gun but it does conceal easily and is not adaptable the way the M&P system is.
You have much more variety in sights, trigger system parts, etc. with the M&P system.
Many departments are dropping their 92's and 96's for either the Glock or M&P.
You are much more likely to find a M&P or Shield that will fit you than the Beretta.
The 92 is a soft shooter but the grip is to large for many, this can be important if a smaller family member needs to learn to use the gun.
The transition from double to single action is more difficult to master and very difficult if not impossible for someone with smaller hands, could your wife or girlfriend do it under stress?
Consider that you can get a M&P full size and an M&P compact, Shield and M&P .22 and they all work the same and feel similar, you can use the same concealment holster for the full size and compact until you can afford to buy a holster for the compact.
I like playing with the 92 but consider the M&P much better for any serious situation.
The M&P's are also cheaper.
Art

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2012 at 07:10
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Good points, Art.

Ergonomic compatibility plays a huge role in deciding which pistol is best for you.  You're more likely to shoot a pistol well if the grip fits you well and controls are within comfortable, easy reach.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2012 at 09:50
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Just to throw a turd in the punch bowl.
The Ky. Fish and Wildlife Dept. (a very firearms intensive training dept.) is trading in their S&W M&Ps for Glock 22s, because the S&Ws are breaking.
 
Glock also has all the selections, bells and whistles that S&W has, plus some. There are also at least 3 different 22 rim fire conversion kit manufacturers, for the Glock. The only thing Glock doesn't have that S&W does, is an external safety, and Gaston didn't think it was needed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2012 at 10:05
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I never like to disagree with a Vet like Sgt. D, but I hate the Beretta 92. As mentioned earlier, the grip is to fat, external safties, decock levers and I just don't shoot it well at all. 

Gimme a Glock. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2012 at 10:51
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Unlike cheaptrick, I like the 92s, I own a 96 and shoot it well.  They are indeed bulky, but I have man-sized hands.

As said above, Beretta 9-series do not conceal well, but they shoot well, are very reliable, and are in the right price range.

Try before you buy!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2012 at 11:42
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I like the Beretta 92, I like the DA, the decock safety, the grip, and the long sight radius. I like the Glock, it's simple, reliable (they will malfunction though), rugged, and reasonably accurate, I also like the S&W 6906 for the same reasons as the Beretta (except sight radius), and I built a state wide reputation with one (I did wear 2 out). I like the 1911, if I can find one that fits my hand, but it's not my favorite. I also like K and N framed S&Ws if the grips fit my hand (custom or after market), and it has a good action (smooth DA pull).
If my current Dept. said I had to carry a H&K USP, or a Taurus something or other, then I would learn how to use it as best I could and practice until I was as good with it as any other pistol.
Now if they said I had to carry a Ruger, I'd draw the line and retire.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2012 at 12:19
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

I like the Beretta 92, I like the DA, the decock safety, the grip, and the long sight radius. I like the Glock, it's simple, reliable (they will malfunction though), rugged, and reasonably accurate, I also like the S&W 6906 for the same reasons as the Beretta (except sight radius), and I built a state wide reputation with one (I did wear 2 out). I like the 1911, if I can find one that fits my hand, but it's not my favorite. I also like K and N framed S&Ws if the grips fit my hand (custom or after market), and it has a good action (smooth DA pull).
If my current Dept. said I had to carry a H&K USP, or a Taurus something or other, then I would learn how to use it as best I could and practice until I was as good with it as any other pistol.
Now if they said I had to carry a Ruger, I'd draw the line and retire.
Not all ruger's are bad
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2012 at 12:50
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Hate may be a little strong. 

I dislike the 92 and prefer a Glock, or a full sized 1911. 
(I've trained to shoot a 1911.) 

What's been said about the 1911 and needing to be trained before carrying it as personal defense weapon, is in my opinion, Gospel truth.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2012 at 20:50
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Since you and your wife like the Glock 17, I would look very strongly at just upgrading it. A trigger kit (More than just a connector.) from Ghost or Glockworx would make a huge difference. Then I would add a KKM semi drop in barrel. That alone will tighten up your groups. I have talked with the owner of KKM and he told me that the difference between a semi drop in barrel for a Glock and a properly fitted match fit barrel is at most a 1/4 of an inch difference. It takes a lot of skill to properly fit a match barrel and in a lot of cases they are not fitted properly and are not as accurate as a semi drop in barrel or even the factory barrel. Next I would upgrade to some good sights. And lastly a good 22 conversion kit. The dollars you save with the 22 conversion kit will pay for itself if you practice like you should.

On my Glock 34 I am going with probably a Ghost trigger, KKM semi fit barrel and some Warren sights. Will this make much of a difference? Well I have a XD 40 Tactical that I sent into the Springfield Custom shop for a trigger job, barrel and sights that went from a 4 to5 inch at 25yds to a 2inch gun at 25yds(In my hands.). Also it is 100% reliable, never had an issue with the 1000s of round I have put through it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2012 at 21:38
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You said your glock is a gen 1,  have you shot the gen3 or gen4's yet?  I bet the gen4 will fit you much better than the gen1 thanks to finger grooves and interchangeable back straps, and with the dual springs the felt recoil is supposed to be a lot less... just a thought, good luck.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2012 at 20:26
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

I never like to disagree with a Vet like Sgt. D, but I hate the Beretta 92. As mentioned earlier, the grip is to fat, external safties, decock levers and I just don't shoot it well at all. 

Gimme a Glock. 
 
I don't see it as disagreeing. I think most guys I know who trained with 1911's don't care much for the 92's. Besides if your going to carry full sized why not carry a 45. I offer no contest that the 9mm comes close in stopping power. I trained with the 1911 in basic and fell in love with it. But after carrying the 92 as long as I did I finally learned to appreciate it more. I have the utmost respect for your opinion and it simply supports that its usually all love or all hate for the 92.
Salute!
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I like the Beretta 92 models, once owned a 92F, but foolishly sold it, and am currently in the market for an M9a1.  It is a very accurate pistol and I always enjoyed shooting it.  However, I CANNOT carry one concealed, which was one of the reasons I gave it up.  I had the opportunity to do some training with an expert with the M9 and in the process fell in love with the M12 holster.  Properly used, a powerful draw.  Difficult to haul around in a civilian environment, but a well designed and practically executed combination.   
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