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Leupold VX-R and Vortex Viper Review

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Topic: Leupold VX-R and Vortex Viper Review
Posted By: atlasman
Subject: Leupold VX-R and Vortex Viper Review
Date Posted: January/18/2011 at 16:27
UPS dropped off a couple boxes for me yesterday.  I had never laid eyes or hands on either of these scopes before so these are 100% first impressions.  Not only that I have never owned a scope by either company before.  I am just a "regular" guy who loves to hunt and is looking to upgrade his optics.
 
 
LEUPOLD VX-R  3-9 40mm
 
Packed very well, looks great, no blemishes or anything visually to be concerned with, came with a Leupold sticker, manual, and battery for the fire dot.  Visually a very nice looking scope with sharp details.
 
 
 
 
 
The mechanics of the scope are buttery smooth but not sloppy..........the focus on the eyepiece and the magnification dials both move easily enough to be smooth in the field with one hand.  The windage and elevation knobs are nice and crisp with audible and tactile clicks to guide you.
 
 
At first glance through the scope the brightness and clarity are impressive......nice clear sight picture right out to the edges.  The eye relief is great and while I don't know what the exact way to explain this is..........the sight picture was easily maintained even at max magnification (I didn't struggle with keeping a full clear picture even free hand at 9x).
 
Before I post any of the following pics PLEASE understand these are taken holding a digital camera behind the scopes in a dark house looking through a sliding glass door on a snowy white day.  I cannot emphasize enough these should in NO WAY be taken as an example of what you can expect to see with your own eye.  I was just having some fun with a doe in my yard (the scope is not on a gun).
 
 
 
 
The Fire Dot reticle is what interested me the most about this scope so I was eager to try it out.  Very easy to adjust and the blinking feature when it is maxed out is a nice touch.  I checked the motion activation of the Fire Dot and it worked as advertised, again excellent feature for saving battery life.  Could be tricky for a left handed person to adjust while aiming but I don't see where else they could put the control.  The Fire Dot looks awesome on a deer (pictures that follow do it NO justice).  This feature will be amzing at low light situations IMO.  One negative I noticed is at higher magnifications head movement will seperate the Fire Dot from the crosshairs center........not sure what optical phenomenon is responsible for that or if it is even a negative (should help keep your eye centered)..........but I could see someone pulling the trigger when they see that Dot glowing where they want to hit in the heat of the moment.  Honestly it doesn't move enough to take you out of effective lethal accuracy on a deer unless you are talking 300 yards plus but it's worth mentioning.  I don't think many long range bombers are into red dots but I may be wrong.
 
I am hesitant to even post these pics because I don't want anyone to think the Fire Dot looks like this with the naked eye..........it is brighter and crisper then anything you see here.  Just having fun with a cheap digital camera.  Take them for what they are please.
 
 
 
 
 
Overall I would say the Leupold is an outstanding scope.  It does everything I hoped it would in my hands and I will soon mount it and report back with my results at the range.  If it performs as well on my rifle as I am expecting I think it will be an awesome deer hunting scope for my needs.
 
 
Value for the price??.........honestly can't complain.  I don't feel like I got a screaming deal but in no way do I feel jipped.  I got what I paid for and I am very pleased.
 
 
 
Vortex Viper 2-7  32mm
 
Packed very well, no blemishes or any visual problems to be concerned with, came with a Vortex pin, soft cloth and all needed literature.  Nice looking scope as well.  I immediately liked the magnification adjuster as it will be easy to find even wearing gloves.
 
 
The mechanics of the scope were excellent on the eyepiece and magnification........moving smoothly with no sloppy feel.  The windage and elevation knobs were crisp and gave audible and tactile clicks easy to follow, they also have a nice feature of resetting them to "zero" once you are dialed in.
 
 
I picked up the scope to look through it and was disappointed to see it was fogged to the point I couldn't even see through it.  In all fairness it just went from 10 degrees to 70 degrees but so did the Leupold and it was not fogged at all.  I don't expect any drastic temp changes like that ever in the field but certainly worth noting.  I waited until to today to look through it in daylight and was pleasantly surprised at the brightness and clarity..........very nice, again clear and bright in the whole sight picture.  At higher magnification it was harder to maintain a solid sight picture (free hand mind you) but nothing horrible.  Eye relief was great.  Comparing the 7x magnification on a deer in the yard 80 yards away to the 9x on the Leupold and I agree it's nothing that will make you ever miss a shot opportunity inside 125 yards.  Reticle is not my favorite but not bad.
 
 
 
Overall I would say the Viper is a good scope.  Worthy of the amount of hype I have seen here??.........IMO no but certainly no insult.  It is a fine scope and the more I look through it the more I like it.  If it holds zero and performs on par with it's looks it will be a fine option for a deer hunter to rely on in the field.
 
 
Value for the price?  Again, can't complain.  I also do not feel like I got a screaming deal on this scope either though.  Not sure what they used to cost and it's impossible to say I am not biased by knowing what I paid, but I would seriously question it's value over what I currently paid and doubt  I would feel as good about this scope if it cost more.  That



Replies:
Posted By: lucytuma
Date Posted: January/18/2011 at 16:50
Looks great, thanks for sharing!  It sure is fun to have new toys to play with during the long winter months.

-------------
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson


Posted By: ccoker
Date Posted: January/18/2011 at 18:21
how do you compare the glass between the two into low light?

sure would be nice to see Leupold knock a home run on these scopes

can you put it on the lowest power setting, cover the end and look into the scope
do you see any red flare coming from inside the scope tube?

I will check out at SHOT


-------------
www.TacticalGunReview.com

Pro Staff - Silencer Shop

http://tacticalgunreview.com



Posted By: cruft
Date Posted: January/18/2011 at 19:38
Bought the same viper at SWFA for about $180 or less.  If it was 1960 would be thrilled but it's not.  Well made just so-so glass but this was just purchased on the emotion driven price.  This will put me off of Vortex but it's not their fault I have buyer's remorse.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: January/18/2011 at 20:51
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Bought the same viper at SWFA for about $180 or less.  If it was 1960 would be thrilled but it's not.  Well made just so-so glass but this was just purchased on the emotion driven price.  This will put me off of Vortex but it's not their fault I have buyer's remorse.

did you use that viper in the field or are your observations strictly based on looking out a window in your house? im just wondering, because a lot of people here are pretty happy with that 2x7 viper, im included. koshkin rated that scope highly, i trust his eyes and mine agree.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/18/2011 at 21:06
   
  +1    Yep,it sure beats my rebuilt 60's era scopes.  It also beat out a scope I paid $375 for.  And ain't far behind my 4X Conquest. 


-------------
"I ain't got time to bleed!"


Posted By: johnfox
Date Posted: January/18/2011 at 22:47
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Bought the same viper at SWFA for about $180 or less.  If it was 1960 would be thrilled but it's not.  Well made just so-so glass but this was just purchased on the emotion driven price.  This will put me off of Vortex but it's not their fault I have buyer's remorse.


You must be running some damn fine optics if you reckon the glass on that Viper is 'just so-so'.

I'm trying to find an excuse to buy another one, I think they're a very good scope for not much money.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 07:04
.
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Bought the same viper at SWFA for about $180 or less.  If it was 1960 would be thrilled but it's not.  Well made just so-so glass but this was just purchased on the emotion driven price.  This will put me off of Vortex but it's not their fault I have buyer's remorse.
Whistling


Posted By: Teddy Bear
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 09:45
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Bought the same viper at SWFA for about $180 or less.  If it was 1960 would be thrilled but it's not.  Well made just so-so glass but this was just purchased on the emotion driven price.  This will put me off of Vortex but it's not their fault I have buyer's remorse.
 
Maybe this isn't a vortex website afterall.  Finally a negative comment on the viper.  His eyes are the ones looking through the scope and good thing no one jumps on him for having an opinion.Loco  (I personally like the glass on the vipers I've looked through)


-------------
"Never rub another man's rhubarb!!"


Posted By: BillyWayne
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 10:11
How did you convince the deer to pose for you??Shocked

-------------
John 11:35
The're taking the hobbits to Isengard!!


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 10:54
Originally posted by Teddy Bear Teddy Bear wrote:

Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Bought the same viper at SWFA for about $180 or less.  If it was 1960 would be thrilled but it's not.  Well made just so-so glass but this was just purchased on the emotion driven price.  This will put me off of Vortex but it's not their fault I have buyer's remorse.
 
Maybe this isn't a vortex website afterall.  Finally a negative comment on the viper.  His eyes are the ones looking through the scope and good thing no one jumps on him for having an opinion.Loco  (I personally like the glass on the vipers I've looked through)
 
So help me understand here...
If a bunch of people appreciate a good product at a good price point, backed up by a company who has demonstrated excellent customer service, that means that this forum is blindly biased toward that product and therefore opinions cannot be trusted?
 
I don't recall anyone saying the Vipers could go head to head with a Zeiss Diavari, only that it was a solid product for what you pay for it, backed by an excellent warranty.  Regardless of what brand name is on said product, those factors are going to generate plenty of recommendations.  There was equal enthusiasm here for the Bushnell Elite 4200 series for the same reasons, and Bushnell has nowhere near as good a customer service as Vortex.
 
Nobody will agree on everything.  Nobody was jumping on cruft because he didn't like the Viper.  The criticism was directed more toward the "if it was 1960 would be thrilled" hyperbole, which is a bit ridiculous given that plenty of people here have the same scope and know better.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Teddy Bear
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 11:12
Rifledude, my response was directed towards a comment on the thread thats already been removed.

-------------
"Never rub another man's rhubarb!!"


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 11:16
Originally posted by Teddy Bear Teddy Bear wrote:

Rifledude, my response was directed towards a comment on the thread thats already been removed.
 
I can't find another comment that has been edited or removed other than mine. So does that mean your talking about mine?


Posted By: jason miller
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 11:48
I received my Viper 2-7x33 from SWFA today.  The scope had been sitting outside in 27 degree weather, and the thermostat is set on 72 inside the house.  The scope was cold to the touch, but just barely fogged up.  I could still see through it just fine. 

I don't consider myself to be a good judge of optical quality.  I buy scopes based on what you guys say are quality optics.  However, I'll say that I feel like this Viper is a step behind the 4200 3-9x40 I just bought.  Honestly, I can't tell much difference between this Viper, my Monarch 3-9x40, Weaver V10, Burris FFII, or Simmons Whitetail 3.5-10.  The 4200 is the only scope I've had that seemed noticeably better than anything else I've owned...

My only complaints are that the reticle isn't very thick for supposedly being designed for thick cover and/or dangerous game, and the fact that it's an ugly scope to me personally.  That big eyepiece combined with the small bell housing don't look right to me- especially with the magnification adjustment bar on top.


Posted By: ccoker
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 12:15
Originally posted by jason miller jason miller wrote:

I received my Viper 2-7x33 from SWFA today. 

My only complaints are that the reticle isn't very thick for supposedly being designed for thick cover and/or dangerous game, and the fact that it's an ugly scope to me personally.


That would be one recommendation I would have on the C3, make the circle and the bars outside the circle at tad thicker


-------------
www.TacticalGunReview.com

Pro Staff - Silencer Shop

http://tacticalgunreview.com



Posted By: jason miller
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 13:08
Agreed.  Although with this scope being discontinued, I guess it doesn't matter.  Does anyone know if they're bringing out something new to replace it?


Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 14:26
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Bought the same viper at SWFA for about $180 or less.  If it was 1960 would be thrilled but it's not.  Well made just so-so glass but this was just purchased on the emotion driven price.  This will put me off of Vortex but it's not their fault I have buyer's remorse.
 
 
I paid $169 for the Viper and IMO it's pushing it's luck even at that price.........I have seen that scope priced as high as $289.  If I had paid that much for it I would be fuming.
 
I bought it sight unseen after seeing the overwhelming high praise it was getting here. 
 
While I can't say I agree with the level of flattery......I won't say it's a bad scope.
 
For the $169 it's hard to complain but yes I was expecting more from the glowing reviews it got on this forum.
 
Will I be running around telling all my buddies to buy one?  No.
 
Am I sorry I bought it?  No.


Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 14:40
Originally posted by ccoker ccoker wrote:

can you put it on the lowest power setting, cover the end and look into the scope
do you see any red flare coming from inside the scope tube?
 
 
Yes you can..........actually you can see it in a couple of the pics I posted looking through the scope.
 
 
I'm guessing this is not a good thing?


Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 14:43
Originally posted by BillyWayne BillyWayne wrote:

How did you convince the deer to pose for you??Shocked
 
 
Pointing a scope through my yard and not seeing a deer is harder then seeing one. 


Posted By: tompac
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 15:45
 I picked up one of the 2-7 Vipers last year when they dropped the price on them. Bout 180$. And for the money  I think it is a great scope. If I had paid 500 for it? Probably would be disappointed. But all in all it is a pretty good scope optically speaking. I do think you have to consider the 32mm when you "grade" this scope. It is not going to be as bright as a 40mm. Am going to move this scope to my 44 carbine and buy another scope for my 308 with a larger objective. And the Vortex Viper or it's replacement will certainly be considered as one of the scopes i look at.


Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 19:00
Originally posted by atlasman atlasman wrote:

Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Bought the same viper at SWFA for about $180 or less.  If it was 1960 would be thrilled but it's not.  Well made just so-so glass but this was just purchased on the emotion driven price.  This will put me off of Vortex but it's not their fault I have buyer's remorse.
 
 
I paid $169 for the Viper and IMO it's pushing it's luck even at that price.........I have seen that scope priced as high as $289.  If I had paid that much for it I would be fuming.
 
I bought it sight unseen after seeing the overwhelming high praise it was getting here. 
 
While I can't say I agree with the level of flattery......I won't say it's a bad scope.
 
For the $169 it's hard to complain but yes I was expecting more from the glowing reviews it got on this forum.
 
Will I be running around telling all my buddies to buy one?  No.
 
Am I sorry I bought it?  No.


Atlasman,

In what areas were you disappointed with your Viper?  Was there a specific optical or build area?  Was it just a general feeling?


-------------
-Matt


Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 21:56
Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Originally posted by atlasman atlasman wrote:

Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Bought the same viper at SWFA for about $180 or less.  If it was 1960 would be thrilled but it's not.  Well made just so-so glass but this was just purchased on the emotion driven price.  This will put me off of Vortex but it's not their fault I have buyer's remorse.
 
 
I paid $169 for the Viper and IMO it's pushing it's luck even at that price.........I have seen that scope priced as high as $289.  If I had paid that much for it I would be fuming.
 
I bought it sight unseen after seeing the overwhelming high praise it was getting here. 
 
While I can't say I agree with the level of flattery......I won't say it's a bad scope.
 
For the $169 it's hard to complain but yes I was expecting more from the glowing reviews it got on this forum.
 
Will I be running around telling all my buddies to buy one?  No.
 
Am I sorry I bought it?  No.


Atlasman,

In what areas were you disappointed with your Viper?  Was there a specific optical or build area?  Was it just a general feeling?
 
 
 
It's all in the review at the start of the thread  Wink
 
 
When I brought it in from outside to the warm house it fogged up so bad I couldn't see through it........temp change issues concern me when going from a warm truck to my stand is sometimes only a few minute walk.
 
I don't really like the fact that at higher magnification it seems "easy" to lose the sight picture.......my eye wanders from dead center just a tiny bit and it's lights out.
 
I also don't like the reticle very much.
 
As far as "feeling" goes...........maybe all the hype I read here gave me unrealistic expectations but when I look through the scope I am not "wowed" in any way.  Is it nice??.......yes, but I certainly am not overly impressed (even at $169).
 
Just my opinion.
 
 
Keep in mind............I LIKE the scope. 
 
 


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/19/2011 at 22:58
Originally posted by atlasman atlasman wrote:

When I brought it in from outside to the warm house it fogged up so bad I couldn't see through it........temp change issues concern me when going from a warm truck to my stand is sometimes only a few minute walk.
 


If the fogging you're referring to was on outside lens surfaces, that's condensation, and will happen with any scope at any price level from the least to the most expensive when subjected to rapid temperature changes; it's virtually unavoidable.  The same thing happens when you breathe on any cold surface.  It has nothing to do with scope quality.  If the fogging was on the inside of the scope, then that is a defect -- the scope is leaking and you should send it in for repair.



-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Jon A
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 00:03
Originally posted by atlasman atlasman wrote:

I certainly am not overly impressed (even at $169).

For the sake of curiosity, what $169 scope are you overly impressed with?


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 00:36
I think Atlasman has made it abundantly clear how he feels about the Viper. He likes it, but he is not overly excited about it as many others seem to be. He repects their opinions and in no manner does he begrudge them that.  
So maybe we should extend him the same courtesy.
 
Thank you for a nice write up and sharing your personal opinions.
 
By the way, the fact that the red dot separates from the reticule is due to them being on different focal planes, causing a parallax error.


Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 00:55
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by atlasman atlasman wrote:

When I brought it in from outside to the warm house it fogged up so bad I couldn't see through it........temp change issues concern me when going from a warm truck to my stand is sometimes only a few minute walk.
 


If the fogging you're referring to was on outside lens surfaces, that's condensation, and will happen with any scope at any price level from the least to the most expensive when subjected to rapid temperature changes; it's virtually unavoidable.  The same thing happens when you breathe on any cold surface.  It has nothing to do with scope quality.  If the fogging was on the inside of the scope, then that is a defect -- the scope is leaking and you should send it in for repair.
 
 
I'm familiar with the concept of condensation............as I said in my review the Leupold did not have any fog on the lens whatsoever but I couldn't even see through the Viper.  That's why I brought it up.  I also didn't say it was a quality issue........just something I took note of.
 
No big deal, but worth mentioning in my review IMO.


Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 01:02
Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

Originally posted by atlasman atlasman wrote:

I certainly am not overly impressed (even at $169).

For the sake of curiosity, what $169 scope are you overly impressed with?
 
 
One that when I look through strikes my eye as being worth much more then that.


Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 01:03
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

I think Atlasman has made it abundantly clear how he feels about the Viper. He likes it, but he is not overly excited about it as many others seem to be. He repects their opinions and in no manner does he begrudge them that.  
So maybe we should extend him the same courtesy.
 
Thank you for a nice write up and sharing your personal opinions.
 
By the way, the fact that the red dot separates from the reticule is due to them being on different focal planes, causing a parallax error.
 
 
Thank you.
 
My pleasure.
 
and
 
Thank you.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 07:15
Originally posted by atlasman atlasman wrote:

I'm familiar with the concept of condensation............as I said in my review the Leupold did not have any fog on the lens whatsoever but I couldn't even see through the Viper.  That's why I brought it up.  I also didn't say it was a quality issue........just something I took note of.
 
No big deal, but worth mentioning in my review IMO.


Understand all that, but my point is, you mentioned that as an example of things that disappointed you about the scope, and I'm simply saying that's in no way a fault of the scope, as it can happen with any scope made.  There are any number of factors that could be responsible for one scope having condensation on the lenses and another not, and it could be as simple as breathing on one lens more than another, one scope being held closer to your face than another, etc.

I do appreciate your review, and it's especially great to hear some user reports on the new VX-R.  I'm not trying to bust your chops; just stating that exterior lens fogging is common, can happen with any optic, and isn't indicative of anything wrong with the optic.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 10:46
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Understand all that, but my point is, you mentioned that as an example of things that disappointed you about the scope, and I'm simply saying that's in no way a fault of the scope, as it can happen with any scope made.
 
That is correct.......I had 2 new scopes I unboxed and 1 I couldn't see through while the other remained clear.  That was disappointing to me and I thought it was worth mentioning.  I don't recall saying it was the fault of the scope.
 
 
Quote There are any number of factors that could be responsible for one scope having condensation on the lenses and another not, and it could be as simple as breathing on one lens more than another, one scope being held closer to your face than another, etc.
 
It also could be that one scope has a moisture repelling coating and one doesn't.  I distintcly remember that Bushnell had images on it's site where it tested their Rainguard scopes against others by dunking them in ice water then exposing them to warm temps showing how Rainguard helped them stay clear.

I honestly didn't know if the Leupold had a moisture coating or not...........so when I saw the dramatic difference in fogging by 2 scopes under the same conditions I thought I would mention it in my review.
 
I really don't see why that would bother anyone.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 10:59
Atlasman, don't take this the wrong way but which scope did you take out the box first?  (just curious)


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 12:30
Originally posted by atlasman atlasman wrote:

I don't recall saying it was the fault of the scope.
You didn't in those exact words, but that was one of the reasons you gave to the question of how the scope failed to meet your expectations.  To the average person, that implies that you felt it was an area where the scope itself was lacking.  Since this was a review of the scopes in question and you said that was something that disappointed you about the scope, I don't see how someone could come to any other conclusion other than you thought it was a fault of the scope.
 
I savvy the fact you didn't like the reticle and felt eye positioning was critical on higher power.  I think those are valid criticisms of a scope, which is why I didn't question you about those things.  Though value is a very subjective thing, I do believe the low price tag should weigh heavily on the performance expectations of a scope like this.  I believe that the critical eye positioning thing would prove to be quite a bit less critical if the scope had been mounted on a rifle during evaluation.  In that regard, I think scope evaluations in general are much less useful if they aren't done in the manner a scope is intended to be used -- while mounted on a firearm.  Again, that is not meant as a slam on you; just an observation.  That doesn't take anything away from the fact I believe your post was helpful and provided good information, especially concerning the VX-R and the reticle pics.
 
This is a discussion forum.  We're here to talk about gear of mutual interest.  When you post a review, you are inviting such discussion, which sometimes involves disagreement.  Disagreement isn't a bad thing as long as it doesn't get personal. 
 
Originally posted by atlasman atlasman wrote:

really don't see why that would bother anyone.
 
It doesn't, and I don't know why you'd assume it does.  I just thought the clarification was very important to the discussion and for anyone reading the thread, so that someone reading this doesn't come away thinking that it leaked and allowed moisture inside the scope. 


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Midwest_Hunter
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 12:52

+1 For just about everything RifleDude has said



Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 13:25
I'm still interested in finding out wether the fogging was internal or external.  Internal I would consider as a defective scope and return.  External , not!  There in lies a very valid concern.  I myself have 3 Vortex, one being the same 3-7X32 w/ C3 ret.  I have experienced no fogging whatsoever.  i now intend to do some experiments with temperature shock, inside to outside at 32F or colder.
 
Thanks for your observations and opinions, both are welcome.  would you consider leaving both scopes out in your garage over night and bringing them inside and immediately inspecting them both side by side for fogging?
 
Again thanks for sharing.


-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 13:38
i can do you one better, except i already know what will happen. i can go from 73 degrees inside my house, to outside, which right now its -31 degrees.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Jon A
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 14:13
Originally posted by atlasman atlasman wrote:

One that when I look through strikes my eye as being worth much more then that.

Give an example maybe?  I'm not trying to bust your balls; I'm actually in the market for a couple compact, light, not too expensive scopes for kids' rifles so if there is something for $169 better than the Viper I'd sure like to know what it is.

Most of the stuff in that price range is pretty crappy IMHO.   I had a Burris FFII once that was pretty close, I felt it was good "for the money" but is sure wasn't as good as a Viper.

So let's hear it.


Posted By: Midwest_Hunter
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 14:14
Holy cow... no way is it -31 there and only 16 here in Madison, Wisc


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 14:15
with the wind chill?? wanna bet?


Park Rapids Municipal Airport
Lat: 46.91   Lon: -95.07   Elev: 1434
Last Update on Jan 20, 1:53 pm CST

Fair with Haze

-8 °F
(-22 °C)
Humidity: 61 %
Wind Speed: NW 18 MPH
Barometer: 30.08" (1023.3 mb)
Dewpoint: -18 °F (-28 °C)
Wind Chill: -32 °F (-36 °C)
Visibility: 1.50 mi.



-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Midwest_Hunter
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 14:45
I stand corrected. With the windchill it's 4 degrees here


Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 15:54
can you even breath outside when its that cold?

-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: johnfox
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 16:07
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

with the wind chill?? wanna bet?


Park Rapids Municipal Airport
Lat: 46.91   Lon: -95.07   Elev: 1434
Last Update on Jan 20, 1:53 pm CST

Fair with Haze

-8 °F
(-22 °C)
Humidity: 61 %
Wind Speed: NW 18 MPH
Barometer: 30.08" (1023.3 mb)
Dewpoint: -18 °F (-28 °C)
Wind Chill: -32 °F (-36 °C)
Visibility: 1.50 mi.



My freezer doesn't get down to negative 22C!!Big Grin


Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 16:19
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Atlasman, don't take this the wrong way but which scope did you take out the box first?  (just curious)
 
 
I unpacked them both immediately when I got inside and looked through them both within probably a minute of unpacking..........Viper first I believe but neither was left anywhere near long enough to temp stabilize.
 
I was excited to check them out  Big Grin


Posted By: SD Dog
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 16:25
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

can you even breath outside when its that cold?


We wear a devise similar to a heating grid in dodges in front of us to warm the air before we breath in.  Works well but carrying around 2 12v deep cycle batteries gets a bit old.


-------------
If nobody ever said anything unless he knew what he was talking about, a ghastly hush would descend upon the earth. AP Herbert

Stupidity & ignorance have been the foundation for many certainties.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 16:29
It was -18 here the other morn without the wind chill.  

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 16:36
Featured you had to do something.  I've been in -20F before and had a huge scarf wrapped around and tucked into my coat . I was mostly breathing air through the scarf and coat but took a couple of breaths thru my nose and all teh nose hairs froze stiff.  Very strange feeling! Smile

-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 16:38
I walked to the post office the other day to drop off some mail and when I got inside my mustache hairs were all icy and frozen.  The lady at the counter got a good laugh. 

It was in the low single digits that day.


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SD Dog
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 16:38
My beard and mustache are solid ice when I spend much time out in this weather.

-------------
If nobody ever said anything unless he knew what he was talking about, a ghastly hush would descend upon the earth. AP Herbert

Stupidity & ignorance have been the foundation for many certainties.


Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 16:41
Being born in Florida and never farther north than PA I have trouble understanding it!
 
I'm not slamming, anyone but even the birds are smart enough to fly south for the winter! Shocked
I don't like going outside when it's 20F above much less -32F!!!!!
 
Just how long does it stay below freeezing there?


-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 16:45
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

You didn't in those exact words, but that was one of the reasons you gave to the question of how the scope failed to meet your expectations.  To the average person, that implies that you felt it was an area where the scope itself was lacking.  Since this was a review of the scopes in question and you said that was something that disappointed you about the scope, I don't see how someone could come to any other conclusion other than you thought it was a fault of the scope.
 
Well when I am holding 2 scopes and one is too foggy to see through and the other is clear I think that should be mentioned in a review.  Whether it is the scope or physics to blame is of little concern to me.  I had no idea what the stark difference was from so I mentioned it and yes, call me crazy I prefer a scope I can see through.
 
 
Quote I do believe the low price tag should weigh heavily on the performance expectations of a scope like this. 
 
Totally agree..........except when that low price tag is a "closeout price" and not supposed to be indicative of the "true value" of said scope......but rather, a deal where you are actually getting "more" then what you pay for simply by the good fortune of timing.
 
When I read so many guys here saying what a GREAT deal the Viper was at $169 I was expecting $250-$300 quality when I looked through it...........not $169. 
 
 
 
Quote I believe that the critical eye positioning thing would prove to be quite a bit less critical if the scope had been mounted on a rifle during evaluation.  In that regard, I think scope evaluations in general are much less useful if they aren't done in the manner a scope is intended to be used -- while mounted on a firearm.  Again, that is not meant as a slam on you; just an observation.
 
 
I mentioned in the review that my observations were done holding the scope "free hand" for that very reason as I agree with the above.
 
 
 
Quote That doesn't take anything away from the fact I believe your post was helpful and provided good information, especially concerning the VX-R and the reticle pics.
 
 
Thanks.........hope it helped someone out there.
 
 
 
Quote This is a discussion forum.  We're here to talk about gear of mutual interest.  When you post a review, you are inviting such discussion, which sometimes involves disagreement.  Disagreement isn't a bad thing as long as it doesn't get personal. 
 
 
I haven't taken anyone's comments personally and vertainly hope no one has taken mine that way. 
 
 
Quote It doesn't, and I don't know why you'd assume it does.  I just thought the clarification was very important to the discussion and for anyone reading the thread, so that someone reading this doesn't come away thinking that it leaked and allowed moisture inside the scope.
 
 
I thought I was very clear considering I looked through and posted clear pics of the Viper the next day that the fog was not internal but perhaps I should have been more specific about that. 
 
If I thought the scope was damaged/defective I certainly would have mentioned that in the review..........but none the less, I hope no one got that impression.


Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 16:46
By the same token Florida can be totally miserable in teh summer if your not in the water or on or very near the beach.  The ocean breeze is about the only thing that makes it bearable except hiding inside with the AC!
Once you get used to Florida and your blood thins 40F is freezing!!!

-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 16:59
Thanks for clarifying the fogging Aman.  I went back and re-read the 1st page and you just said it fogged and that you waited till the next day to test it.

-------------
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson





Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 17:00
Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

Give an example maybe?  I'm not trying to bust your balls; I'm actually in the market for a couple compact, light, not too expensive scopes for kids' rifles so if there is something for $169 better than the Viper I'd sure like to know what it is.
 
A real life example?  If I knew that I wouldn't have bought the Viper  Wink
 
 
As I have said from the start......I'm no scope expert, just a guy who loves to hunt and is looking to upgrade his optics on some rifles.
 
 
I actually have a Bushnell Elite 4200 on it's way that I paid $180 for...........I'll do a side by side with the Viper when it gets here.
 
As far as value for your dollar and feedback from MY eyes I'm pretty happy with that price for the 4200.
 
 
Let me know if you find something solid in your search.
 
 
 
 


 


Posted By: cruft
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 17:09
OK, so here's my review of my 2-7X viper.  100 yards-fine, can see any size target clearly.  200 yards-fine, can see any sized target but not as clearly.  300 yards target from large dog up can see to hit.  400 yards large dog/deer and up can see to hit but resolution has gone away.  This was thru the whole magnificaction range using 2x, 4x & 7x.  Also found the tunneling was severe and eye position taking more movement than I cared to do.  Now another poster brought up a touchy subject; "there appeared to him that there was a cheering section for Vortex on this site".  I mulling over I realized the truth of this and was a reason I bought the scope.  I won't make that mistake again.Clown


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 17:41
 cruft,why not contact Vortex and tell them of your findings. They may want to take a look at it. My Viper has none of what your describing.

-------------
"I ain't got time to bleed!"


Posted By: cruft
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 18:15
300,  already did but before I return it tomorrow, good lord will and the creek don't rise,  I'll take out my two other comparable scopes, a bushnell 4200 & burris durodiamond both 1.5-6 and do a side by side out to 400 yards.  Would you like the results?


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 18:17
   Does a bear sh...................................................    Never mind.
  
    Well sure!


-------------
"I ain't got time to bleed!"


Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 19:58
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Now another poster brought up a touchy subject; "there appeared to him that there was a cheering section for Vortex on this site".  I mulling over I realized the truth of this and was a reason I bought the scope.  I won't make that mistake again.Clown


This is a touchy subject, but the truth is most posters on this site are trying to give good advice to people coming here for it, me included.

I "cheer" for products and companies that I feel make good products and have good customer service.  Vortex has delivered that for me with several of their products, so I have told others on this site about them.  I have also told them about my experiences with many other companies, and I like a lot of them.

I have never tried to mislead anyone.  I have not had the trouble with my Viper 2-7X32 you have.  I like that scope, and still think it is one of the best optics bargains going.

Sorry to OP to steal the thread, and I appreciate his review ... Vortex critique and all.  I asked about what he specifically didn't like, so I could compare his impressions to mine, not to push Vortex on him or anyone else.  I thought he may have drawn a lemon.


-------------
-Matt


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 20:13
 
  Well said,Matt.  And not only will we "cheer" for them but we'll also confront them if we feel they've done wrong by a customer.  No biases here.


-------------
"I ain't got time to bleed!"


Posted By: cruft
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 20:45
300,  your editing made me sad.Boo Hoo


Posted By: 03mossy
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 20:49
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

300,  your editing made me sad.Boo Hoo
I like the other version as well!


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 20:58
 
    All better.  Had second thoughts after I posted it.   If you think long,you think wrong. Big Grin


-------------
"I ain't got time to bleed!"


Posted By: tman1965
Date Posted: January/20/2011 at 21:53

I wont "hype" up anyones product... I will simply state my honest opinion of a product and if I think its awesome, just ok, or a total POS, thats what I'll post. If I have no experience with the product I wont comment at all on it. with that said, here in Ga. we can have some drastic temp extremes... this is the only place I know of where I can get sunburned and frostbitten in the same day! I have a 2-7x32 viper, and for what I paid for it 169.99+ shipping, I think it's a great scope. I have had no fogging issues with it at all, and its as clear as I could ask it to be at any range I can realistically use it. and in the event I ever do have a problem with it, I know without a doubt vortex will make it right. I personally just dont see how one can go wrong with that!



Posted By: grimreaper21
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 10:27
Originally posted by atlasman atlasman wrote:

 
Totally agree..........except when that low price tag is a "closeout price" and not supposed to be indicative of the "true value" of said scope......but rather, a deal where you are actually getting "more" then what you pay for simply by the good fortune of timing.
 
When I read so many guys here saying what a GREAT deal the Viper was at $169 I was expecting $250-$300 quality when I looked through it...........not $169. 
 
 

this boggles my mind a bit... If this scope is not a great deal at $170 then I have a feeling you would hate every $170 scope you ever looked through. 
 
do you have experience with any of the following? just wondering.
 

Bushnell Elite 3200, Leupold VX-II, Millet Tactical/Buck Gold, Nikko Stirling, Nikon Buckmaster, Sightron SI & SII, Vortex Diamondback, Super Sniper Fixed.

these are all scopes mostly in the same price range if NOT MORE expensive than $170.  The viper is said to best all of these scopes by a substantial margin.  If you look at the 2009 riflescope rating scale, the Viper is ranked two categories higher than all of these.  I can understand not liking the fogging (very temporary) or the eye position (corrected with more consistant eye/shooting position), but other than that It seems more like you were emotionally dissatisified.  any other explanations would help me out here. 


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 10:41
The thing that is killing me about this fogging issue is that will not happen in the field as was said by the OP.  You are not going to be out hunting in the super cold and then suddenly walk under a magic tree and the temp goes up 60+ degrees or vs versa.  A rifle scope does not get close enough to your eye that the heat from your head is going to affect it.  I honestly just don't see how this is an issue at all.

That is the same reason I always keep my binos in my jacket against my chest when hunting in the cold.  If they are cold and I put them up to my warm eye they fog up.  Its just the way it works.  But if they are at a similar temp because they were in my coat against my chest they do not.

One thing that I don't think has been taken into account here is what if one of the boxes in the UPS truck was sitting in a much warmer place in the truck.  That is something that is unknown, but it could explain the diff here.

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 10:44
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

The thing that is killing me about this fogging issue is that will not happen in the field as was said by the OP.  You are not going to be out hunting in the super cold and then suddenly walk under a magic tree and the temp goes up 60+ degrees or vs versa.  A rifle scope does not get close enough to your eye that the heat from your head is going to affect it.  I honestly just don't see how this is an issue at all.

That is the same reason I always keep my binos in my jacket against my chest when hunting in the cold.  If they are cold and I put them up to my warm eye they fog up.  Its just the way it works.  But if they are at a similar temp because they were in my coat against my chest they do not.

One thing that I don't think has been taken into account here is what if one of the boxes in the UPS truck was sitting in a much warmer place in the truck.  That is something that is unknown, but it could explain the diff here.

actually it can, ive done it myself to my 4200 elite.
i use one of those hand warming muffs like nfl quarterback use. i put a heat factory brand "body warmer" in mine. they are like 4x4 and they put out serious heat. when i sit in the stand i put my rifle across my lap and it tucks under the muff. i have to make sure i take the rifle out of there every so often. i neglected to once, and when i pulled my rifle up it was so warm under there that the scope fogged instantly. it was below zero outside mind you.


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 10:47
That is operator error, not a problem with the scope.  Wink  That is exactly what should be expected to happen in the situation you put your scope in.  

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 10:48
correct

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: 03mossy
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 10:53
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

One thing that I don't think has been taken into account here is what if one of the boxes in the UPS truck was sitting in a much warmer place in the truck.  That is something that is unknown, but it could explain the diff here.
There is no heat what-so-ever in the back of those trucks. equally cold from front to back, top to bottom.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 10:55
If it were sitting on the floor right above the exhaust it could have been kept at a warmer temp.  It is an unknown, that is all I am saying.  

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 11:06
Beating a Dead Horse


Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 12:21
Originally posted by grimreaper21 grimreaper21 wrote:

this boggles my mind a bit... If this scope is not a great deal at $170 then I have a feeling you would hate every $170 scope you ever looked through.
 
It may be boggling your mind because I don't think you are reading the thread very clearly, I never said I hated the Viper.......in fact have said numerous times I like it.  I also listed another scope I have coming in that I paid $180 that I feel WAS a deal at that price.
 
 
Quote If you look at the 2009 riflescope rating scale, the Viper is ranked two categories higher than all of these. 
 
It could be rated #1 in the world by every magazine out there and nothing in my review would change.  Just my honest opinion and feedback.........sorry if you were disappointed by it. 
 
 


Posted By: atlasman
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 12:27
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

The thing that is killing me about this fogging issue is that will not happen in the field as was said by the OP.  You are not going to be out hunting in the super cold and then suddenly walk under a magic tree and the temp goes up 60+ degrees or vs versa.
 
 
That's actually not what I said at all.
 
Quote I don't expect any drastic temp changes like that ever in the field but certainly worth noting.
 
That's what I said in the review.......I replied later that when my truck is sometimes only a couple minutes from my stand this is a concern.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 12:37
I guess that took on a double meaning.  What I was meaning is that you also said you don't expect those changes to happen in the field.  I was agreeing with you in that respect.

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: cruft
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 13:01

OK 300 you caused me to own up so here is the comparison.  Any benchrest guys back off, hunters only.  The 3 scopes tested were; 1) the Vortex Viper 2-7x32 BDC,  2) the Bushnell 4200 elite 1.5-6x36 with rain guard and german #4 (my favorite reticle in the whole universe) and the 3) Burris eurodiamond German#4 illuminated (which makes it the best reticle in all 21 dimensions).  It is a beautiful crystal clear day here in central Virginia but my sighting distances are not the usual suspects but will start in that which should interest hunters.  The first distance is 135 yards as it was a junction box with writing.  Now this is important as it's a measure of resolution and contrast sensitivity test is beyond me.  The next distance was a 400 yard clearing with waving grass of some sort.  So here's the findings; can't tell the difference between the viper and the bushnell at 135 yards.  That was a suprise.  Excellent resolution from both.  At 400 yards Same results the two tied.  But there is a really BIG difference,  the easy and comfort I got behind the scopes.  The viper is pure misery.  Must fiddle and adjust head position no end.  The bushnel easy peasy.  Boy was that a telling side by side test and no way to find out other than doing it this way.  Now comes the Burris eurodiamond.  Sidebar; my experience with Mike at Burris customer service left me with a concrete promise to never by another product from this company so I'm no shill.    And I won't sell a POS scope to another brother.  But this scope utterly blows the first two away.  When I got behind it, the instant comfort, field of view, edge clarity was beyond belief.  So I compared the three to transmission lines at 500,  600 &  8oo yards.  Results;  the first 2 were good enough to kill anything deer size all the way out but the resolution not so good.  The Eurodiamond not only could I see the ceramic separators but I could see the wires clearly!  And this at 6X.  Anyone wanting a tweener and have gotten this far shouldn't pass up the closeout a SWFA.  I hope Ilya can explaing why the ED is so poorly rated by him.  Get Your Popcorn Ready 



Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 13:29
Cruft, you didn't say, but I'm assuming the ED was the 1.5-6X40, is that correct?
 
You do realize that scope retailed for 2X what the other 2 did and has a larger objective, right?  The larger objective diameter provides better resolution.
 
I had a Euro Diamond 2.5-10X50 w/ Ballistic Plex, and I agree it was a nice scope.  I sold it to my brother, and he's happy with it.  I didn't like the fact the entire ocular rotates with the magnification ring, but overall, it's a good scope.  I think they're a good buy at the current closeout prices, but at normal retail, for the same and in some cases less money, I would rather buy a Zeiss Conquest, which I think has better optics than the ED.


-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: cruft
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 13:48
Yes it is 1.5-6.


Posted By: cruft
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 13:52
RifleDude,  what is that rife, a dakota?  the case coloring is a delight but I would only fondle such a thing and guns are meant to be shot.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 14:03
Yes, it's a Dakota Model 10.  I don't have one... yet.  I'm a sucker for nice falling block SS rifles.  Fit, finish, balance, style, and overall design are all first rate.  Action is built like the proverbial swiss watch.  All decked out, they are works of art.

-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: ccoker
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 14:34
I had the ED 1.5-6x40 #4 electro dot
fairly good scope optically, but the illuminated reticle failed on me twice
(newer style)
after MUCH pleading I got them to send me another scope model, sans illumination
Both of my LRS burris scopes crapped out

Done




-------------
www.TacticalGunReview.com

Pro Staff - Silencer Shop

http://tacticalgunreview.com



Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 15:59
 cruft,first off it must be NICE to have a 400yd indoor range with waving grass in it cause you sure weren't out on a day like this.  Bucky
 
  I see Rifledude addressed the ED price issue so.....................................
 
  I'm guessing that you've noticed at OT that the 4200 Elite series scopes are highly thought of. Almost in the Conquest class,I think.  We push the 3-9 to the hilt because it's a great scope at a heck of a price.  I tried to locate one of the 1.5-6x36 models after they were discontinued but it didn't happen.  It to,like the ED,was a good bit higher in price than the 2-7 Viper was at it's highest price.  I paid $275 to the door for my Viper.  I still have notes I took when I was searching out a low powered variable for my Mauser Carbine. For that 4200 the lowest price I found (before the prices were pulled) was $360 w/o shipping.  I guess what I'm getting at is that your testing (and I want THANK YOU for going through the trouble) to me shows the Viper compared favorably,optically,with the 4200 and that's a complement in my book.  As far as the PURE MISERY?  Shocked of the head position (was there a problem at all dstances?) I can only say that I don't have that issue.  But,and maybe this is the diff,my stock's lop is cut to fit me to a T with a full fov at 7X.  I did notice that the specs for both scopes shows the 4200 with a bit wider fov to.  Anyways,I still believe that the Viper is a VERY GOOD scope even at the higher price it use to be. I could have returned it if I didn't think so.  I feel there's another issue at work here. I had bought a highly recommended scope for my Mauser before I got the Viper. Paid $100 more than what I paid for the Viper and didn't keep it long enough to hunt with. A couple of it characteristics just didn't and couldn't work for me at all.  I won't say what the scope was because it is a very popular brand in a very popular power range that is well liked by many users including the guy I sold it to.  Maybe that's what's happening here.  ALOT of those Vipers have been bought and it's only here recently that there has been a FEW complaints.  I honestly believe the scope will work for most but won't,as with any scope,work for all.  I'll continue to recommend it for use in situations where I feel  it will best satisfy the customer and at a price they are looking pay.  So,how much you looking to sell that rag Viper for?  Big Grin
 
 
 Earl
 
 


-------------
"I ain't got time to bleed!"


Posted By: billyburl2
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 19:37
I'll go $10 more than Earl's top offer!

-------------
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 19:46
 HEY!!!!  How many you got already?

-------------
"I ain't got time to bleed!"


Posted By: billyburl2
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 19:55
none. But thought it would be good for the rifle I am going to get for my kids.

-------------
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 19:57
 
    Then go for it!!  What you getting them?


-------------
"I ain't got time to bleed!"


Posted By: 1911man
Date Posted: January/21/2011 at 20:16
Originally posted by ccoker ccoker wrote:

I had the ED 1.5-6x40 #4 electro dot
fairly good scope optically, but the illuminated reticle failed on me twice
(newer style)
after MUCH pleading I got them to send me another scope model, sans illumination
Both of my LRS burris scopes crapped out

Done


 
Me too, Burris is crap in the reliability dept !!!!! Last one I sent back 3-4 months ago has not been returned either ...........................


-------------
Bill Wilson
www.wilsoncombat.com


Posted By: ccoker
Date Posted: January/22/2011 at 08:05
Yep, and the 3-9 LRS I got for Sean crapped out the first hunt..
a night time hog hunt..
arg

so, that's 2 different scopes, and mine failed twice



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Posted By: Ed Connelly
Date Posted: January/22/2011 at 09:34
 
 
 
 
                                                                   Shocked
 
 
 
 


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Posted By: 1911man
Date Posted: February/03/2011 at 09:10
After a few weeks of being bounced around in a Kawasaki Mule, quite a bit of shooting doing some load development and 20 some odd dead hogs I have to report that I really like this new scope for low light hog hunting. Seems to gather light well in low light and I really like the thickness of the crosshairs in the daytime, they seem to cover up about 1/2" at 100yds, kinda between reg and heavy Duplex.
 
I still don't think they will replace my Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40s though as my go-to scope!!!!


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www.wilsoncombat.com


Posted By: budperm
Date Posted: February/03/2011 at 09:21
Originally posted by 1911man 1911man wrote:

After a few weeks of being bounced around in a Kawasaki Mule, quite a bit of shooting doing some load development and 20 some odd dead hogs I have to report that I really like this new scope for low light hog hunting. Seems to gather light well in low light and I really like the thickness of the crosshairs in the daytime, they seem to cover up about 1/2" at 100yds, kinda between reg and heavy Duplex.
 
I still don't think they will replace my Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40s though as my go-to scope!!!!
 
Just to be prefectly clear you are liking the Vortex???  I do to BTW! Cool


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Posted By: ccoker
Date Posted: February/03/2011 at 13:24
Bill is referring to the Firedot 3-9x50

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Posted By: BigGameBalls
Date Posted: February/03/2011 at 13:41
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

OK 300 you caused me to own up so here is the comparison.  Any benchrest guys back off, hunters only.  The 3 scopes tested were; 1) the Vortex Viper 2-7x32 BDC,  2) the Bushnell 4200 elite 1.5-6x36 with rain guard and german #4 (my favorite reticle in the whole universe) and the 3) Burris eurodiamond German#4 illuminated (which makes it the best reticle in all 21 dimensions).  It is a beautiful crystal clear day here in central Virginia but my sighting distances are not the usual suspects but will start in that which should interest hunters.  The first distance is 135 yards as it was a junction box with writing.  Now this is important as it's a measure of resolution and contrast sensitivity test is beyond me.  The next distance was a 400 yard clearing with waving grass of some sort.  So here's the findings; can't tell the difference between the viper and the bushnell at 135 yards.  That was a suprise.  Excellent resolution from both.  At 400 yards Same results the two tied.  But there is a really BIG difference,  the easy and comfort I got behind the scopes.  The viper is pure misery.  Must fiddle and adjust head position no end.  The bushnel easy peasy.  Boy was that a telling side by side test and no way to find out other than doing it this way.  Now comes the Burris eurodiamond.  Sidebar; my experience with Mike at Burris customer service left me with a concrete promise to never by another product from this company so I'm no shill.    And I won't sell a POS scope to another brother.  But this scope utterly blows the first two away.  When I got behind it, the instant comfort, field of view, edge clarity was beyond belief.  So I compared the three to transmission lines at 500,  600 &  8oo yards.  Results;  the first 2 were good enough to kill anything deer size all the way out but the resolution not so good.  The Eurodiamond not only could I see the ceramic separators but I could see the wires clearly!  And this at 6X.  Anyone wanting a tweener and have gotten this far shouldn't pass up the closeout a SWFA.  I hope Ilya can explaing why the ED is so poorly rated by him.  Get Your Popcorn Ready 

 
This makes me VERY happy since I have a Euro Diamond on the way soon and Was a little skeptical becasue I have no experience with Burris!!!! Thank you very much sir!


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: February/03/2011 at 14:11
A few comments:

1) Fogging issue.  If you take two scopes from a cold place into a warm place, the external lens surfaces of BOTH scopes should fog up the same way, regardless of coatings and other crap that might be on them.  If only on of the scopes looks to be fogged up, it is likely that there is moisture on the inside and you should return it to the manufacturer for purging and sealing.

2) When comparing 2-7x32, 1.5-6x36 and 1.5-6x40 scopes, you have to be very cognizant of the differences in exit pupil.  They will make a dramatic difference in eye relief flexibility at high magnification.  A lot of the comments regarding the comfort of the sight picture are likely driven by that.  Also, keep in mind, that Viper has the slimmest eyepiece of the group along with the longest eyerelief.  That will make perceived image quality and FOV different.

ILya


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Posted By: 1911man
Date Posted: February/03/2011 at 19:00
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Originally posted by 1911man 1911man wrote:

After a few weeks of being bounced around in a Kawasaki Mule, quite a bit of shooting doing some load development and 20 some odd dead hogs I have to report that I really like this new scope for low light hog hunting. Seems to gather light well in low light and I really like the thickness of the crosshairs in the daytime, they seem to cover up about 1/2" at 100yds, kinda between reg and heavy Duplex.
 
I still don't think they will replace my Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40s though as my go-to scope!!!!
 
Just to be prefectly clear you are liking the Vortex???  I do to BTW! Cool
 
Sorry, Leupold VX-R


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Bill Wilson
www.wilsoncombat.com


Posted By: cruft
Date Posted: February/03/2011 at 20:04
as Ilya pointed out exit pupil MATTERS but this was not addressed other than stating I personally found the viper exhausting.  Not so the elite which duplicated magnifications of the viper.  The Eourodiamond was slightly different but the post happened to coincide with the 3 scopes in my possession.  There have been many requests for 1-6 or 2-7 scope reviews as this is by FAR the most useful range covering from 25-800 yards.  800 yards is truly possible with the Burris, not so much the other two.  Now I have never looked thru S&B or Heinstoldt glass as I have not slept with Scarlett Johansen, but did once have a Steak at Morten's and the lesson learned; "if no future possiblity, don't sample".  So my post was for guys who might go to Vegas and order a burger,  sigh!  BTW;  saw that Vortex has recalled the Razor scope to replace the eye box so my experience was not due to the lunar cycle.    The problem I see with Vortex is that for such a young company they are trying to fill EVERY niche at the same time.  Seen this before in different industries and  design ALWAYS suffers  as does product quality and customer service.  CS needs trained techs who take time to reach fast smooth operational ABILITY and these people COST ALOT OF MONEY.  Vortex CS is yet to proven and this  and time will tell.   Obviously looking forward to Ilya's reviews on the new 1-8/10X scopes.Get Your Popcorn Ready


Posted By: ccoker
Date Posted: February/03/2011 at 20:40
I am very anxious to see the Leupold Firedot 2-7
Hopefully arrives tomorrow and will compare against a Viper 2-7 we have as well


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Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: February/03/2011 at 21:42
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

as Ilya pointed out exit pupil MATTERS but this was not addressed other than stating I personally found the viper exhausting.  Not so the elite which duplicated magnifications of the viper.  The Eourodiamond was slightly different but the post happened to coincide with the 3 scopes in my possession.  There have been many requests for 1-6 or 2-7 scope reviews as this is by FAR the most useful range covering from 25-800 yards.  800 yards is truly possible with the Burris, not so much the other two.  Now I have never looked thru S&B or Heinstoldt glass as I have not slept with Scarlett Johansen, but did once have a Steak at Morten's and the lesson learned; "if no future possiblity, don't sample".  So my post was for guys who might go to Vegas and order a burger,  sigh!  BTW;  saw that Vortex has recalled the Razor scope to replace the eye box so my experience was not due to the lunar cycle.    The problem I see with Vortex is that for such a young company they are trying to fill EVERY niche at the same time.  Seen this before in different industries and  design ALWAYS suffers  as does product quality and customer service.  CS needs trained techs who take time to reach fast smooth operational ABILITY and these people COST ALOT OF MONEY.  Vortex CS is yet to proven and this  and time will tell.   Obviously looking forward to Ilya's reviews on the new 1-8/10X scopes.Get Your Popcorn Ready

i cant find anything when i type recall or re-call on the vortex sight, where did you see that?


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Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: February/04/2011 at 00:53
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

as Ilya pointed out exit pupil MATTERS but this was not addressed other than stating I personally found the viper exhausting.  Not so the elite which duplicated magnifications of the viper.  The Eourodiamond was slightly different but the post happened to coincide with the 3 scopes in my possession.  There have been many requests for 1-6 or 2-7 scope reviews as this is by FAR the most useful range covering from 25-800 yards.  800 yards is truly possible with the Burris, not so much the other two.  Now I have never looked thru S&B or Heinstoldt glass as I have not slept with Scarlett Johansen, but did once have a Steak at Morten's and the lesson learned; "if no future possiblity, don't sample".  So my post was for guys who might go to Vegas and order a burger,  sigh!  BTW;  saw that Vortex has recalled the Razor scope to replace the eye box so my experience was not due to the lunar cycle.    The problem I see with Vortex is that for such a young company they are trying to fill EVERY niche at the same time.  Seen this before in different industries and  design ALWAYS suffers  as does product quality and customer service.  CS needs trained techs who take time to reach fast smooth operational ABILITY and these people COST ALOT OF MONEY.  Vortex CS is yet to proven and this  and time will tell.   Obviously looking forward to Ilya's reviews on the new 1-8/10X scopes.Get Your Popcorn Ready

i cant find anything when i type recall or re-call on the vortex sight, where did you see that?

There is no recall on Razor eyepiece.  I have seen someone else saying it, and it is pure fiction.  New Razor scopes have a re-designed eyepiece, and Vortex offered a retrofit for existing users if they are so inclined.  I am not sure if it is the right thing to do from a business standpoint, since there is nothing wrong with the older style eyepiece.  However, the new one is better, and it does speak volumes about Vortex' commitment to their customers.

ILya


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