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Ilya, I'm Gonna Be In Trouble

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Category: Scopes
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Topic: Ilya, I'm Gonna Be In Trouble
Posted By: JGRaider
Subject: Ilya, I'm Gonna Be In Trouble
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 08:05
.....If I do what I'm thinking about doing, and it's largely your fault BTW.  I hope you know, I always appreciate your expertise, whether I agree with it 100% or not.  In this case you have peaked my interest in the VX6, with, of all things, a 30mm tube.  Even if I "don't need" the bigger tube, I may wring one out shortly. 

In another thread you remarked about the glass.  After a little more research, you, once again, are right on.  The powers that be at Leupold tell me it's a step up from the VX7, which I do know first hand had fantastic glass.  It's supposedly overall a step up from the VX7 in every way, I was told. 
I was also told the one I'm looking at, the 2-12 x42 w/plex reticle, has a pop up CDS compatible dial built in.  Do you know if that's true? The pics show a standard screw on cover, but I"m told it's underneath there.  Another question......one site shows a 120 MOA adjustment range @ 100 yds, while the VX3 CDS has 58 MOA.  Does this sound right?  As I said, I don't think I'd ever come close to needing it, but is it there?

I hope you know, since this is mostly your fault, I'm going to have to eat some serious humble pie around here and tell everyone I was wrong and did indeed join the "dark side".  Thanks a lot ! Smile



Replies:
Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 09:06
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

I'm going to have to eat some serious humble pie around here and tell everyone I was wrong
 
Shocked
 
 


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-Matt


Posted By: 300S&W
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 09:10
 
 HEY!  There's absolutely nothing wrong with a little Humble Pie.
 
 


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"I ain't got time to bleed!"


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 09:20
N i i c e 300.......I know Bitterroot, it's a bitter pill to swallow, and I haven't even bought the darn thing yet.  I may be already guilty for just thinking about it.  I gave my FX to a good kid down the street, and gave my coonass hunting buddy the Elite, so I need something else.......


Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 09:26
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

N i i c e 300.......I know Bitterroot, it's a bitter pill to swallow, and I haven't even bought the darn thing yet.  I may be already guilty for just thinking about it.  I gave my FX to a good kid down the street, and gave my coonass hunting buddy the Elite, so I need something else.......
 
I am interested to get your take on the VX-6, JG.
 
As far as tube size goes, that has got to be one of the silliest things to argue about either way, so the humble pie shouldn't be too bitter...
 
and if you need to give anything else away, throw me a PM, it is probably time you moved out of that Prominar.
 
Smile


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-Matt


Posted By: helo18
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 09:30
Yikes

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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 10:01
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

.....If I do what I'm thinking about doing, and it's largely your fault BTW.  I hope you know, I always appreciate your expertise, whether I agree with it 100% or not.  In this case you have peaked my interest in the VX6, with, of all things, a 30mm tube.  Even if I "don't need" the bigger tube, I may wring one out shortly. 

In another thread you remarked about the glass.  After a little more research, you, once again, are right on.  The powers that be at Leupold tell me it's a step up from the VX7, which I do know first hand had fantastic glass.  It's supposedly overall a step up from the VX7 in every way, I was told. 
I was also told the one I'm looking at, the 2-12 x42 w/plex reticle, has a pop up CDS compatible dial built in.  Do you know if that's true? The pics show a standard screw on cover, but I"m told it's underneath there.  Another question......one site shows a 120 MOA adjustment range @ 100 yds, while the VX3 CDS has 58 MOA.  Does this sound right?  As I said, I don't think I'd ever come close to needing it, but is it there?

I hope you know, since this is mostly your fault, I'm going to have to eat some serious humble pie around here and tell everyone I was wrong and did indeed join the "dark side".  Thanks a lot ! Smile


ah, another satisfied customer!!Big Grin


-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Son of Ed
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 10:02
Not a problem.  I do it all the time.  Bucky
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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Visit the Ed Show


Posted By: Son of Ed
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 10:05
 
 
 
 


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Visit the Ed Show


Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 10:22

I think the illuminated long range duplex looks interesting in the 2-12. It should be great for coyote and fox. I was already on the dark side so it won't be a problem.

 



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Doug


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 10:34
Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

 
I am interested to get your take on the VX-6, JG.
 
As far as tube size goes, that has got to be one of the silliest things to argue about either way, so the humble pie shouldn't be too bitter...
 
and if you need to give anything else away, throw me a PM, it is probably time you moved out of that Prominar.
 
Smile


It is so silly it's embarrassing to be honest.  My momma taught me better too. Big Smile 


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 10:37
Do any of you guys know the answer to my CDS/VX6 question?  A couple of sites, Cabelas and Midway, lead me to believe it's already CDS compatible.  Other sites make no mention of it. 

Thanks for piling on pyro.......Smile


Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 10:52
Leupold says the VX-6 is good to go with CDS.

http://www.leupold.com/CDS/ - http://www.leupold.com/CDS/
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
edited for live link.


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-Matt


Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 10:53
The only thing I've seen is a promotion for free custom calibrated CDS dials for VX-3 and R scopes. Maybe that was extended to the VX-6. I am not a tactical scope user like some of our members.  But, those would seem to contradict the need for the long range duplex. Though, holdover reticles should be faster than dialing.

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Doug


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 11:15
Originally posted by 300S&W 300S&W wrote:

 
 HEY!  There's absolutely nothing wrong with a little Humble Pie.
 
 

You betcha!! Yep, Thought So


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 11:30
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

The only thing I've seen is a promotion for free custom calibrated CDS dials for VX-3 and R scopes. Maybe that was extended to the VX-6. I am not a tactical scope user like some of our members.  But, those would seem to contradict the need for the long range duplex. Though, holdover reticles should be faster than dialing.


As Bitterroot says, the CDS offer now includes the VX6 as per their website.   I'm not the least bit a tactical guy. I've bee a MPBR guy for almost 40 yrs and it works well.  I did try a CDS VX3 last season, though, out of curiosity.  I couldn't find a good buck to shoot, but was amazed at how easy (no wind to speak of) it was to bust plate sized rocks out to 600 yards with a simple twist of that CDS.  I had a muley hunter this past Nov and we briefly looked at a double drop tined, 210" bruiser at app 435 yards.  He gave us about a 15 second window and I'm wondering if the hunter had a CDS, M1, etc dial if he would have been able to kill that buck.   As with most really big muley bucks, you only see them once, and that was the last we ever saw of him. 


Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 11:44

I'm thinking have both the reticle and the dials.  Then, if time allows, dial.



-------------
Doug


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 11:57
thats what they pay me the big bucks forBig Grin

-------------
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 12:24
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

I'm thinking have both the reticle and the dials.  Then, if time allows, dial.

 
You mean like the Vortex Viper HS LR scopes?
 
I agree that is the best setup for actual hunting use in the field.
 
The Vortex BDC also has windage marks on the main crosshair for dial-and-hold shooting.
 
Swarovski has a new windage reticle for use with their turret dialing scopes as well.


-------------
-Matt


Posted By: rustic
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 13:55
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

The only thing I've seen is a promotion for free custom calibrated CDS dials for VX-3 and R scopes. Maybe that was extended to the VX-6. I am not a tactical scope user like some of our members.  But, those would seem to contradict the need for the long range duplex. Though, holdover reticles should be faster than dialing.


As Bitterroot says, the CDS offer now includes the VX6 as per their website.   I'm not the least bit a tactical guy. I've bee a MPBR guy for almost 40 yrs and it works well.  I did try a CDS VX3 last season, though, out of curiosity.  I couldn't find a good buck to shoot, but was amazed at how easy (no wind to speak of) it was to bust plate sized rocks out to 600 yards with a simple twist of that CDS.  I had a muley hunter this past Nov and we briefly looked at a double drop tined, 210" bruiser at app 435 yards.  He gave us about a 15 second window and I'm wondering if the hunter had a CDS, M1, etc dial if he would have been able to kill that buck.   As with most really big muley bucks, you only see them once, and that was the last we ever saw of him. 
 
I used CDS three times this fall. Very simple.
The first was on a proghorn - temp. mid 70's - elevation 3200ish - 302 yds
The second was on a mule deer - temp. 14 below - elevation 3200ish - 414 yds
the third was on a mule deer - temp mid 30's - elevation 5000ish - 212 yds
I worked flawlessly range dial shoot that quick. One shot for each easy and saves on ammo to boot.
 
I see most of the manufacturers are going to this too bad did not have this 10 years ago?
 


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Light is alright.<br /><br />The end is just... the beginning   -soul surfer


Posted By: Jon A
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 17:18
I'm anxious to take a look at these VX6's as well.  If the glass is really that good at those prices they may have gone from lagging behind to jumping back to the front of the pack with these scopes.  Fast focus eyepiece, fixed eye relief, etc, nice.

On the CDS's, I've been using BDC knobs of my own making for a long time and they really are nice for hunting and general use out to medium ranges.  It really is much faster to dial to the range than look up a number in a chart and dial that (most people wont memorize). 

While frowned upon by many, most of the reasons can be overcome by simply using your head and understanding their limitations (don't expect the dial made for zero elevation to work perfectly at extreme ranges at 9000 ft, etc,--have a separate dial made for each location).

The way I do it with mils/moa included on the turret with the yardage lets you have your cake and eat it too somewhat, but it really isn't needed for a specific hunt until you get to ranges far beyond "medium." 

The pop-up/locking layout is also a good compromise for hunting use if it works well.  I have no problem with exposed turrets if they're really stiff as they are on some tactical scopes, but when they turn too easily they become a liability.  Requiring them to pop up can work very well.
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">

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http://swfa.com/Aadland-Mounts-C3316.aspx - AADMOUNT Rings and AR Mounts


Posted By: rustic
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 18:02
Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

I'm anxious to take a look at these VX6's as well.  If the glass is really that good at those prices they may have gone from lagging behind to jumping back to the front of the pack with these scopes.  Fast focus eyepiece, fixed eye relief, etc, nice.

On the CDS's, I've been using BDC knobs of my own making for a long time and they really are nice for hunting and general use out to medium ranges.  It really is much faster to dial to the range than look up a number in a chart and dial that (most people wont memorize). 

While frowned upon by many, most of the reasons can be overcome by simply using your head and understanding their limitations (don't expect the dial made for zero elevation to work perfectly at extreme ranges at 9000 ft, etc,--have a separate dial made for each location).

The way I do it with mils/moa included on the turret with the yardage lets you have your cake and eat it too somewhat, but it really isn't needed for a specific hunt until you get to ranges far beyond "medium." 

The pop-up/locking layout is also a good compromise for hunting use if it works well.  I have no problem with exposed turrets if they're really stiff as they are on some tactical scopes, but when they turn too easily they become a liability.  Requiring them to pop up can work very well.
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
 
I have 3 cds dials so far --- for different temps and elevations. I use the same ammo for everything.


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Light is alright.<br /><br />The end is just... the beginning   -soul surfer


Posted By: Jon A
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 18:12
Good job, that's the way to do it.

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http://swfa.com/Aadland-Mounts-C3316.aspx - AADMOUNT Rings and AR Mounts


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 19:18
Hey Jon A.....can you give me a short course on mils?  I totally understand the MOA adjustments, just not mils.  

How do you make your own dials?


Posted By: Thundey
Date Posted: January/07/2012 at 23:51
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

N i i c e 300.......I know Bitterroot, it's a bitter pill to swallow, and I haven't even bought the darn thing yet.  I may be already guilty for just thinking about it.  I gave my FX to a good kid down the street, and gave my coonass hunting buddy the Elite, so I need something else.......


Whoooooaaaa.......  If you're in the business of giving away good optics please put my name somewhere on the list.  I'll even make it easy on you and schedule fedex to stop and pick it up to make things easier on you.Cool


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/08/2012 at 00:14
JG,

Keep in mind that I have not had a chance to properly test the VX-6, but my brief look suggested that these are nice scopes.

Whether they are better than VX-7 is had to say off hand.  VX-7 was pretty decent optically, though a little overpriced.  VX-6 is a little cheaper than VX-7 was and if it is at least as good it should be very good for the money.

If the optical quality meets my expectations and the scope proves to be durable, I suspect that the VX-6 2-12x42 with illuminated #4 reticle and CDS available will prove to be the best general purpose hunting scope in Leupold's history.

ILya


-------------
http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel


Posted By: Jon A
Date Posted: January/08/2012 at 20:20
< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0"> < ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Hey Jon A.....can you give me a short course on mils?  I totally understand the MOA adjustments, just not mils. 

Sure.  They're really very easy to use, they may sound scary to some who've only used MOA but once you jump in you'll figure them out very quickly.

It's an angle, just like MOA.  The easiest way to define and visualize it is a mil is one at a thousand.  One yard at 1000 yds, one foot at 1000 feet, one inch at 1000 inches, one hand at 1000 hands (for the horse people)....  So at 100 yds a mil is 0.1 yds which is obviously 3.6".  10 Mils at 100 is 36" which makes it nice and handy to check reticle calibration as well as tracking accuracy since everybody has a yardstick:



But none of that stuff really matters much to the average hunter.  The big thing you'll notice is most Mil scopes in hunting power ranges will adjust in 0.1 Mil increments, which is .36" at 100 yds.  This makes them a nice compromise between 1/4 MOA and 1/2 MOA clicks (very close to 1/3 MOA) between precision and speed (adjusting in fewer clicks, having more travel in a single turn of the knob).

The only thing you need to do to use them different from an MOA scope is have whatever ballistics program you're using print the dope and take your personal notes (logbook or whatever) in Mils instead of MOA.  The numbers will look different, but they're just as easy to use.  Actually I find them nicer to use--for example, instead of your dope for 1000 yds being 25.75 or 25 ¾ MOA it would be 7.5 Mils.  Two digits, no fractions.  For me that's simply easier to read off a PDA, enter in drop chart, read off a drop chart, call out to my buddy, etc.  With something like a 300 RUM, the dropchart all the way out to 1300-1400 yds is made up of simple two digit numbers.

Here's an example dropchart:



But that's not really a big deal, just personal preference.  And if you're using a yardage BDC, you wouldn't even notice any of the above when dialing for distance.  I do also find it's much easier to memorize your wind in Mils (it'll be a nice single digit number for most shots you'd take hunting) if your reticle gives you the ability to hold off precisely.

Anyway, I think much of the above will be moot for the VX-6's as I'd expect most of them to come in MOA but the upcoming MK6's I'd expect to mostly use Mils. 

Quote How do you make your own dials?


I've made Excel spreadsheets containing the BDC for many different scopes.  I just print them out on label paper and apply them to the turret sandwiched in a layer of packaging tape.  It takes some time to get a new scope figured out, but once I do I can change the yardages for a different load and swap on a new label in a few minutes.  Here are a few examples:







Here's an MOA example on a Weaver:



The pic of the Weaver above is a good example of what I was talking about.  The yardages were set up for an elk hunt at 6000 ft in Montana, but that pics was later at 3000 ft in Washington so naturally the numbers were way off at such long range.  But with MOA on the dial I was able to simply ignore the yardages on the BDC and dial the correct MOA for the conditions.  It's hard to fit on some lower profile (which I like for hunting) turrets, as you can see I had to make them pretty small to fit on the March.

I could have the knobs laser engraved if I ever felt the need for more permanence but I find I change them often enough I haven't worried about it yet.  Kenton can make similar ones for many scopes as well.

But again I mostly get use of that feature in the offseason.  If you have a knob made with accurate data for the location and average weather for the time of year for a hunt, changes in the weather aren't going to have much affect until you get into some really long distances.  Bigger guns shooting higher BC bullets will be less affected by changes in weather obviously so such changes can be ignored out to a farther distance.



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http://swfa.com/Aadland-Mounts-C3316.aspx - AADMOUNT Rings and AR Mounts


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/08/2012 at 20:27
Some good info there...
I also use excel spreadsheets for my scopes... 


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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/08/2012 at 21:04
That's some impressive stuff, and thanks for posting and educating me.  Those turrets are sweet. Being new to this game,  I can already see how having Ydg and MOA on the same turret would help.  


Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: January/09/2012 at 21:55
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If the optical quality meets my expectations and the scope proves to be durable, I suspect that the VX-6 2-12x42 with illuminated #4 reticle and CDS available will prove to be the best general purpose hunting scope in Leupold's history.

ILya
I don't use holdover reticles. I was thinking of having the LR Duplex for speed if there wasn't time to dial. Maybe a good combination. I am also a big fan of the #4.
Now I'm in trouble, too. Either way, this scope sounds like a winner.

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Doug


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/10/2012 at 08:07
tahqua, for guys like you who like the LR reticle, and if the VX6 turns out to be all it's supposed to be, it would offer the best of  both worlds, standard.  All of the VX6 scopes are CDS compatible as standard procedure.  I got a heck of a deal on one with the std duplex.  We'll see.  


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/10/2012 at 11:25
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If the optical quality meets my expectations and the scope proves to be durable, I suspect that the VX-6 2-12x42 with illuminated #4 reticle and CDS available will prove to be the best general purpose hunting scope in Leupold's history.

ILya
I don't use holdover reticles. I was thinking of having the LR Duplex for speed if there wasn't time to dial. Maybe a good combination. I am also a big fan of the #4.
Now I'm in trouble, too. Either way, this scope sounds like a winner.

LR Duplex, like all holdover reticles in SFP scopes, implies that you are keenly aware of what magnification you are at when you take that quick shot.

Generally, this is well outside my field of expertise, but if the target is far enough to require significant enough holdover for such a reticle to be useful, do you want to be taking it so quickly that you do not have time to turn you BDC knob to the right position?

ILya


-------------
http://www.darklordofoptics.com - www.darklordofoptics.com
https://rumble.com/c/DLO - Rumble Video Channel



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