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Carbon removal from barrel..

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Category: Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition
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Topic: Carbon removal from barrel..
Posted By: 8shots
Subject: Carbon removal from barrel..
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 05:46
I have fired around 250 rounds through my 6mmAI.
I clean it after evrey range session, whuch amounts to about 50 rounds. I use Shooters Choice, Shooters copper removal and Boretech Carbon removal. Heavy soaks and lots of time for it to do its thing.
However, after my last session, this is after 250 rounds total through the barrel, I could feel the patch push harder through the throat area and then softer through the rest of the barrel. The patch comes out clean (white).
I then did a bit of scrubbing with the bronze brush, only in the throat area. Black gunk came out. Soaked again carbon cleaner, patch comes out clean. Scrub with wire brush, black gunk. I repeated this process about twenty times, even using a brand new bronze brush to eliminate the brush as the source of the carbon.
 
So after a couple of bronze brush scrubs the patch came out clean.
 
Whats up here??
 
My take is that all this expensive stuff is not doing its job. Remember, I soaked and soaked, sometimes even overnight.
A good old bronze brush scrubbing did the trick, with Ballistol oil. The paatch also now felt smooth throuhout the barrel.



Replies:
Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 06:51
I use nylon brushes because I felt the brass brushes were mixing with the cleaning agent that I use, Barnes CR-10, and causing the "blue" left on the patches. Wasn't black though. 

Also, you may want to consider using Tubbs Throat Maintenance system to smooth out the throat. I did and noticed that the barrel was easier to clean and had less drag on the patches. 
Other than that, I'm not sure why your getting the results you've gotten, 8.    

http://www.davidtubb.com/final-finish-tms - http://www.davidtubb.com/final-finish-tms


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 08:27
Thanks, I will see if I can lay my hands on some of these.


Posted By: jonoMT
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 12:51
I've found carbon is harder to deal with than copper...and you don't want to leave ammonia-based solvents for long. They can etch the barrel. I soak a .45 bore mop with M-Pro 7 and leave that jammed in the chamber overnight (with the rifle upside down and with the muzzle slightly lower than the action). The mop will be covered with flakes of carbon. I used to use GM Top Engine cleaner but that stuff is highly toxic. I then run patches through on a spud with a copper solvent until they come out completely clean. I stopped brushing altogether.

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Reaction time is a factor...


Posted By: rustic
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 13:49
I use a bore snake in the field as often as possible. Carbon and copper have never been a problem for me.

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Light is alright.<br /><br />The end is just... the beginning   -soul surfer


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 15:12
Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

I use a bore snake in the field as often as possible. Carbon and copper have never been a problem for me.

Is this the only cleaning you do, is with a Bore Snake?  


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: Bigdaddy0381
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 15:41
cleaning is over rated." Just shoot"....



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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 16:14
Originally posted by 8shots 8shots wrote:

I have fired around 250 rounds through my 6mmAI.
I clean it after evrey range session, whuch amounts to about 50 rounds. I use Shooters Choice, Shooters copper removal and Boretech Carbon removal. Heavy soaks and lots of time for it to do its thing.
However, after my last session, this is after 250 rounds total through the barrel, I could feel the patch push harder through the throat area and then softer through the rest of the barrel. The patch comes out clean (white).
I then did a bit of scrubbing with the bronze brush, only in the throat area. Black gunk came out. Soaked again carbon cleaner, patch comes out clean. Scrub with wire brush, black gunk. I repeated this process about twenty times, even using a brand new bronze brush to eliminate the brush as the source of the carbon.
 
So after a couple of bronze brush scrubs the patch came out clean.
 
Whats up here??
 
My take is that all this expensive stuff is not doing its job. Remember, I soaked and soaked, sometimes even overnight.
A good old bronze brush scrubbing did the trick, with Ballistol oil. The paatch also now felt smooth throuhout the barrel.
 
Stupid question time...........Are you running moly coated bullets ?
 
 
.


Posted By: rustic
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 19:31
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:


Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

I use a bore snake in the field as often as possible. Carbon and copper have never been a problem for me.


Is this the only cleaning you do, is with a Bore Snake?  


For the barrel... Yes.

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Light is alright.<br /><br />The end is just... the beginning   -soul surfer


Posted By: Sparky
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 19:52
Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:


Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

I use a bore snake in the field as often as possible. Carbon and copper have never been a problem for me.


Is this the only cleaning you do, is with a Bore Snake?  


For the barrel... Yes.


What type of cleaning solutions do you use?


Posted By: rustic
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 20:11
Outers

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Light is alright.<br /><br />The end is just... the beginning   -soul surfer


Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 20:12
Wipe Out will remove ALL of the fouling without any scrubbing at all.
 
It is like a miracle product.
 
Use Wipe Out overnight sometime, and check the bore with a borescope afterwards.  Amazing.


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-Matt


Posted By: rustic
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 20:15
Where do you get that at??

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Light is alright.<br /><br />The end is just... the beginning   -soul surfer


Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: April/10/2012 at 21:22

I order it online, but I have also seen it sold locally.



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-Matt


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: April/11/2012 at 00:59
No using Sierra Blitzking, no molycoats.
 
I thought all the carbon removal stuff would after several soaks clean it all out. But it does not seem to be so. A brush is still required.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: April/11/2012 at 06:53
Rustic, if the only thing you use is a Bore Snake to clean your barrels, you probably have more of a copper problem than you presently know. 

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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: Bigdaddy0381
Date Posted: April/11/2012 at 07:33
Just soak it in this for a few minutes  http://www.tetraproducts.com/product_view.asp?ID=4  and patch it out. No brush needed. if you think you need to brush it do so. This is some good stuff. i have seen it work wonders and it stinks to high heaven.



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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2


Posted By: Bitterroot Bulls
Date Posted: April/11/2012 at 08:32
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Rustic, if the only thing you use is a Bore Snake to clean your barrels, you probably have more of a copper problem than you presently know. 


Agreed.

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-Matt


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: April/11/2012 at 09:11
Especially on factory rifles.  All mine copper foul like crazy.  Bore snakes work great at breaking loose some carbon between cleanings, but beyond that they do not do much.  

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: April/11/2012 at 10:41
+1 on the Wipe Out.
There is another foaming bore cleaner that removes carbon and copper, but I can't remember if it's Outters, or Birchwood Casey's.
Wipe Out is still my first choice though. Haven't had to use a bore brush since I started using it.


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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Dale Clifford
Date Posted: April/11/2012 at 10:48
You have the "Dreaded Cone of Carbon", a common event which occurs more as the more "over bore" the caliber and powder charge combination. Copper fouling really isn't a problem, but carbon build up will ruin accuracy.
the best carbon cleaning solvents are unsaturated aromatic ethers. light wt. synthetic motor oil. the ether bridge has an unshared pair of electrons, which combines with the carbon residue, and the aromatic rings are a natural carbon solvent. Saturate barrel with a wet swab let stand for a couple of hours, spray out the residue with brake fluid , follow with one pass of JB's bore cleaner , then Kroil

If you had been using moly this wouldn't have happened.


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I love little league baseball-- it keeps the kids out of the house
Yogi Bera



Posted By: shooter07
Date Posted: April/11/2012 at 11:09
BoreTech Eliminator
 
Best solvent i've ever used to date.


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Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

"Issac Newton invented gravity because some asshole hit him with an apple"
-Chris Moltisanti


Posted By: Thundey
Date Posted: April/11/2012 at 17:59
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

You have the "Dreaded Cone of Carbon", a common event which occurs more as the more "over bore" the caliber and powder charge combination. Copper fouling really isn't a problem, but carbon build up will ruin accuracy.
the best carbon cleaning solvents are unsaturated aromatic ethers. light wt. synthetic motor oil. the ether bridge has an unshared pair of electrons, which combines with the carbon residue, and the aromatic rings are a natural carbon solvent. Saturate barrel with a wet swab let stand for a couple of hours, spray out the residue with brake fluid , follow with one pass of JB's bore cleaner , then Kroil

If you had been using moly this wouldn't have happened.


Best advice so far.  Stuff a cork in the barrel and then fill with synthetic motor oil, or even cooking oil will work.  Let stand overnight and then drain and run a patch through it.  Also if you need to wash your hands after some  mechanic work start your wash with some form of cooking oil.  Then use dawn dish detergent or other soap.  You will have the cleanest hands on the blockCool


Posted By: Native
Date Posted: April/11/2012 at 20:49
Wipe-out is the way to go. Been using it for years. Pull a bore snake through after each trip to the range or hunt. Use Break Free on the snake. Wipe out when I feel like it. A good break in was part of the history.


Posted By: rustic
Date Posted: April/11/2012 at 23:12
I will have to try wipe out with a bore snake.

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Light is alright.<br /><br />The end is just... the beginning   -soul surfer


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: April/12/2012 at 01:20
Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

You have the "Dreaded Cone of Carbon", a common event which occurs more as the more "over bore" the caliber and powder charge combination. Copper fouling really isn't a problem, but carbon build up will ruin accuracy.
the best carbon cleaning solvents are unsaturated aromatic ethers. light wt. synthetic motor oil. the ether bridge has an unshared pair of electrons, which combines with the carbon residue, and the aromatic rings are a natural carbon solvent. Saturate barrel with a wet swab let stand for a couple of hours, spray out the residue with brake fluid , follow with one pass of JB's bore cleaner , then Kroil

If you had been using moly this wouldn't have happened.
 
Thanks Dale, I will give this a go.


Posted By: Native
Date Posted: April/12/2012 at 21:29
I want to clarify my earlier statement. I use a dry patch after treatment with the wipe out, then pull a brake free treated bore snake through to put a very light coat of protection in the barrel. Sorry for any confusion.


Posted By: BeltFed
Date Posted: April/13/2012 at 10:34
After the Wipe Out, I use dry patches until they come out clean or light grey. Then I treat the barrel with Tetra Gun bore conditioner, followed with 1 dry patch to remove excess conditioner.

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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.


Posted By: Blanco Gringo
Date Posted: May/08/2012 at 12:56
I have been using something that has been under a lot of peoples radar. You can find the exact formula online. I have seen it called Ed's red. My formulation is called gungravy.
Easy to make and cheap.
My recipe...
1/3 Valvoline universal ATF.. (use this for low odor)
1/3 low odor mineral spirits
the last 1/3 is a mix of lightweight oil such as 10 wt non detergent oil (3in1)
and orange oil solvent (limolene)
This is some of the best cleaner I have ever used and it is a great lubricant also.
This is a guess ... buut I think this is very close to what is known comercially as Ballistol??
 
It will strip fouling and carbon from barrels you thought were clean!
It just wont remove copper fouling. For that, just add some murphy's oil soap and janitorial strength ammonia (10%) available from ACE hardware to the gungravy. you will need to shake it up real good.
I used this formula on my old Mosin Nagant and big gobs of blue and green came out the barrel!


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"My dog gives me the bird"


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: May/08/2012 at 16:27
I mixed a gallon or so of Ed's Red a few years back and I think I still have a 80% of it left.  I suspect that it will last me for the rest of my life and it only cost a few bucks.

I did separate a little bit of it and made Ed's Red Plus which also cleans out copper.  I use it on my various milsurp rifles with reasonable success.  The one problem with it is that it does not work all that well when you have been using corrosive ammo.

Since I shoot corrosive ammo in my milsupr rifles a fair bit, I started using water-based Slip2000 degreaser before the other cleaners.  It kinda smells like citrus, so it is also not too offensive to my wife (in case I am cleaning guns in the garage).  It turned out that this citrusi concoction is phenomenally good on carbon fouling as well.  So much so that oftentimes all I do is 3-4 patches of Slip2000 degreaser, a couple of dry patches, a patch saturated with oil and then a dry patch.  That leaves the embedded copper in place and takes out most of the other crap.

ILya


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Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: May/08/2012 at 20:07
Originally posted by shooter07 shooter07 wrote:

BoreTech Eliminator
 
Best solvent i've ever used to date.


I agree.  Wipe out is great too, but this stuff is numero uno in my book.  Another "miracle" cleaner is Iosso Bore Paste.  You can scrub and clean 'til your hearts content, then run Iosso through it and see the crap you couldn't get out otherwise.  Nylon brushes are the way to go also.  I still like Butch's best for copper. 


Posted By: 8shots
Date Posted: May/09/2012 at 05:50
I have tried this and that..nothing. I tried the lightweight oil. I use Ballistol etc....nothing.
 
On the last clean I took Brasso to the barrel. Black stuff kept on coming out. I had a pile of patches heaped up. I checked the outside of the barrel with a Brasso patch, the patch stays clean, so I am not dissolving the barrel away!!
It seems clean now.
I will use a borescope at some point to check what is going on.


Posted By: Stevey Ducks
Date Posted: June/04/2012 at 01:03
For years I have used Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner with adequate results. This stuff contains Ethanolamine sort of a spin off of ammonia and alcohol and is commonly used in dry cleaning and other industrial applications. I use this stuff with rubber gloves and immediately wipe off any spilled residue from wood, inside actions and other parts. All of my barrels are stainless and a 1-2 hour soak of this stuff appears to remove both carbon and copper. I neglected to remove some of this stuff from an carbon steel ejector in a carbon steel receiver and a good deposit of rust resulted. Traces of rust sometimes form inside stainless receivers used in humid warm conditions.
 
Ethanolamine could attack copper (remove), iron (rust?), rubber (scope parts), brass (ammo?) and is labeled as toxic. Lots of blue-black glop is pushed from the bore upon cleaning with a rod & patch.
 
0W-20 Mobil 1 costs about $7/qt. and appears to clean more carbon from my barrels after the foaming bore cleaner treatment.
  


Posted By: KIMBER8400AT
Date Posted: July/06/2012 at 20:54
Originally posted by shooter07 shooter07 wrote:

BoreTech Eliminator

 

Best solvent i've ever used to date.


Been using that with copper eliminator every 80 - 100 rounds no problem.
Also heard Montana extreme works well, all of their products are non-corrosive/abrasive.

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“Don't carry a gun. It's nice to have them close by, but don't carry them. You might get arrested.” J.G.


Posted By: MZ5
Date Posted: July/07/2012 at 08:38
8shots, do you use a nylon brush with the Boretech products, as they direct?

I've seen almost diamond-hard carbon deposits before that only an abrasive would take out. I've seen them when the shooter used an oooold-line surplus spherical powder, and a supposedly-new-tech stick powder. Both of these are marketed by the same intermediate company. Perhaps it happens with some other marketers' powders, but where I've seen it is with just a couple powders from the one outfit. Not all the powders they market exhibit this carbon fouling characteristic, but I don't use enough of their stick powders to know whether it's an across-the-board issue with the one manufacturer they buy from or not. I know it's not an across-the-board issue from another of the manufacturers they buy from.


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: July/07/2012 at 12:00
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

+1 on the Wipe Out.
There is another foaming bore cleaner that removes carbon and copper, but I can't remember if it's Outters, or Birchwood Casey's.
Wipe Out is still my first choice though. Haven't had to use a bore brush since I started using it.


BeltFed, correct on the Wipe-Out, I use Accellerator first., then Wipe-Out. End of story. I get mine from my gunsmith, it's the only thing he'll use.

Peddler Big SmileBig SmileBig SmileBig SmileBig Smile



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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: runout
Date Posted: November/06/2016 at 05:46
Easy off oven cleaner is the stuff to use..Works great..Be sure to rinse it out of the barrel and apply a light coat of sewing machine oil..    


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: November/06/2016 at 11:47
Originally posted by runout runout wrote:

Easy off oven cleaner is the stuff to use..Works great..Be sure to rinse it out of the barrel and apply a light coat of sewing machine oil..    

Hmm..I never considered that. 

Welcome to Optics Talk. 


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: jonoMT
Date Posted: November/06/2016 at 19:59
I use oven cleaner on carbide-tipped tools - router bits, saw blades. It works great for that. While I haven't seen any rust, I'd be a little leery using it in a barrel.

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Reaction time is a factor...


Posted By: oldfortyfive
Date Posted: November/06/2016 at 22:06
Soak the bore down with PB Blaster. It's cheap and safely cuts the carbon. Really helps when shooting cast bullets too. I've not used anything that worked as well for cleaning a stainless steel revolver. Crap just wipes off.


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: November/07/2016 at 08:18
Kroil for carbon, WO or Bore Tech Eliminator for copper.  If I have lots of time it's WO as I just leave it in there for a day or so.  


Posted By: dsr
Date Posted: November/07/2016 at 18:59
Originally posted by shooter07 shooter07 wrote:

BoreTech Eliminator

 

Best solvent i've ever used to date.


+one on this for copper removal.


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: November/07/2016 at 21:04
Mike McDonald always said the subject of barrel cleaner always brought out "the witches and the warlocks". Wink  

I like JG, love Kroil. That smell.....It just smells....right.Love 


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: November/08/2016 at 04:56
Me too! Kroil has a mystifying smell...that "I'm here to kick a$$," serious bidness kinda smell. I mix it half and half with Shooters Choice, and the resulting blend is my default bore cleaner, supplemented by the occasional Wipe Out treatment.

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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Alan Robertson
Date Posted: November/08/2016 at 13:10
When I first tried KG12 copper fouling cleaner, I was amazed and even almost embarrassed by the amount of embedded carbon which it removed from my "clean" barrel(s). I gave a bottle to a friend and his results were the same as mine. KG12 is no slouch in the copper removal department, either.

2 cents /out

Ps  Yeah, Kroil has it's smell, but got nuttin' on Hoppe's #9.


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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"



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