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A New Brand in USA and Canada

Printed From: OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc.
Category: Other Optics
Forum Name: Binoculars
Forum Description: Anything that requires two eyes to look through it
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=43823
Printed Date: March/24/2017 at 22:56


Topic: A New Brand in USA and Canada
Posted By: Troubador
Subject: A New Brand in USA and Canada
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 05:59

A new brand of bins and riflescopes has emerged under the name German Precision Optics. The brand has been founded by ex-Zeiss Sports Optics boss, Richard Schmidt and an independent USA company GPO, USA owned and operated by ex-Zeiss Sports Optics USA boss, Michael Jensen, has taken on distribution in the United States and Canada.

The bins look great and the specifications are competitive as are the prices. No doubt at some point review units will become available and we will find out how they compare with the competition.

 Go to: http://www.gpo-usa.com - lee




Replies:
Posted By: Skylar McMahon
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 08:06
Lee, mate, please remember the rules that you agreed to when joining the forum. Specifically;


Originally posted by Chris Farris Chris Farris wrote:

3.  Do not advertise other retailers selling the same or similar products as SWFA, this includes posting links to other retailers for products sold by SWFA.  SWFA does not provide this forum as a vehicle to redirect customers to our competition.


This is your first and only warning mate. Adhear to the rules or you will no longer be welcome to post or converse about discussions on the Optics Talk.


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Amat Victoria Curam


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 08:21
Gotcha and apologies for my unintentional error.
By all means delete my post.

Lee


Posted By: WJC
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 10:28

Lee:

Welcome aboard. Although you were dinged right off the starting blocks—because all such sites are to generate income stream—I think you will find the group here much more amiable than some of the Romper Room groups, wherein you can read the same erroneous stuff ad nauseum and see it repeated 5 or 6 more times before the year is out, and in which some socially needy armchair speculators vie to see if they can be seen as today’s optical sages.

 

Skylar:

Lee made a booboo. And, knowing him, I know the comment was well-intentioned. If it meets with your approval, I would ask that you talk to the owners about how to handle such well-intentioned mistakes. I think most of us would consider This is your first and only warning mate,” to be a bit heavy handed. Repeat offenses is another matter. But with 3 posts under his belt, I hardly think that could have figured in.

 

Cheers




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"However elegant the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.—Winston Churchill


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 10:52
On the subject of the topic.  That sounds great, looking forward to seeing what they bring forth. 

Welcome to Optics Talk Lee. 


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 10:58
Lee is a very knowledgeable guy.  He can offer lots of valuable info here.  


Posted By: Skylar McMahon
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:06
I may have jumped the gun. However, historically introductory posts like this on the OT have clouded several sections of the forum with undesired commentary, urls, and other potentially malicious content.

I have no doubt that he's probably knowledgeable and would make contributions to the forum. However we diligently work to keep this place clean from links to foreign and potentially malicious website to protect its members. I didn't follow the link, however it was flagged by a fellow member and upon seeing and the minimal post count thus far, lead me to the conclusion to warn him and remove the outgoing url.

I hope that you gentlemen may understand the position I am in. I meant no ill will towards Lee and would like to see more from him.


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Amat Victoria Curam


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:07
Hi Bill

How nice to be greeted by you as I step into this unfamiliar territory.
And thanks for your pleas on my behalf.

Cheers Lee


Posted By: WJC
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:08
And he can offer it in a relevant and mature manner.


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"However elegant the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.—Winston Churchill


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:10
Thanks for your greetings.
The management team behind this company were instrumental in pulling Zeiss into the 21st century so it will be interesting to see how their bins perform.

The specifications are a mixed bunch although competitive but the real test will be getting hold of test units, and I'm working on it.

Lee


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:13
Skylar

I didn't read the conditions closely enough or I would have realised I was in contravention.

When I was at school my teachers used to often write 'could do better' and so I will try to do better here too.

Lee


Posted By: WJC
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:13
Originally posted by Skylar McMahon Skylar McMahon wrote:

I may have jumped the gun. However, historically introductory posts like this on the OT have clouded several sections of the forum with undesired commentary, urls, and other potentially malicious content.

I have no doubt that he's probably knowledgeable and would make contributions to the forum. However we diligently work to keep this place clean from links to foreign and potentially malicious website to protect its members. I didn't follow the link, however it was flagged by a fellow member and upon seeing and the minimal post count thus far, lead me to the conclusion to warn him and remove the outgoing url.

I hope that you gentlemen may understand the position I am in. I meant no ill will towards Lee and would like to see more from him.


Crap, an apologetic explanation! I guess that means we don't get to beat you. Well, you are, after all from Texas.

Pecos Bill


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"However elegant the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.—Winston Churchill


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:15
Crikey JG you've got me blushing here thanks to your kind words. Nice to bump into you here too.

Lee


Posted By: Skylar McMahon
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:17
Originally posted by Troubador Troubador wrote:

Skylar

I didn't read the conditions closely enough or I would have realised I was in contravention.

When I was at school my teachers used to often write 'could do better' and so I will try to do better here too.

Lee


Lee,

It's no problem not. My reply to you was an effort to convey that we request that all patrons follow the rules to Optics Talk. As noted above, there was a time where daily myself and other moderators were cleaning up links, fake user profiles, ect..because it added no beneficial content for the users of our community.

Again, Welcome to Optics Talk.


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Amat Victoria Curam


Posted By: Skylar McMahon
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:20
Originally posted by WJC WJC wrote:

Originally posted by Skylar McMahon Skylar McMahon wrote:

I may have jumped the gun. However, historically introductory posts like this on the OT have clouded several sections of the forum with undesired commentary, urls, and other potentially malicious content.

I have no doubt that he's probably knowledgeable and would make contributions to the forum. However we diligently work to keep this place clean from links to foreign and potentially malicious website to protect its members. I didn't follow the link, however it was flagged by a fellow member and upon seeing and the minimal post count thus far, lead me to the conclusion to warn him and remove the outgoing url.

I hope that you gentlemen may understand the position I am in. I meant no ill will towards Lee and would like to see more from him.


Crap, an apologetic explanation! I guess that means we don't get to beat you. Well, you are, after all from Texas.

Pecos Bill


Like Davy Crockett



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Amat Victoria Curam


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:21
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

On the subject of the topic.  That sounds great, looking forward to seeing what they bring forth. 

Welcome to Optics Talk Lee. 


Thanks for your kind greetings, looking forward to settling in here when I get used to how the site works.

Lee


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:23
Originally posted by WJC WJC wrote:

And he can offer it in a relevant and mature manner.


Bill are you trying to say I can only think about one topic at a time and that I am old beyond my years?

Your kind words are much appreciated.

Lee


Posted By: gunut
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:26
they had better perform at an alpha level for half the big boy alpha prices, for at least 5 years B4 they can be looked at as a top level option....otherwise just another mid priced no name wannabe....

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gunut


Posted By: WJC
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:34
Skylar:

Are you really from Texas? Crockett went by David and only tolerated "Davy." Besides, were it not for Walt Disney, he would have been a small footnote in history. Big Grin


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"However elegant the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.—Winston Churchill


Posted By: WJC
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:35
Originally posted by Troubador Troubador wrote:

Originally posted by WJC WJC wrote:

And he can offer it in a relevant and mature manner.


Bill are you trying to say I can only think about one topic at a time and that I am old beyond my years?

Your kind words are much appreciated.

Lee


Kind words, nothing; get up off the 5 bucks!


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"However elegant the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.—Winston Churchill


Posted By: WJC
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:40

Serious-Lee:

I think you will find things here much to your liking. First, you may go days without seeing a new post, because members deal with one thing at a time and let it go when an answer has been found, thus using the site as a tool and not a toy.

Also, it is refreshing in that the experienced can replace the pretentious “I believe,” “perhaps you may,” “but possibly,” “maybe,” “you might consider,” etc. with “is” and “are” without thin skinned speculators taking offense and whining to the site owner that you weren’t politically correct enough for THEIR taste and temperament.

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"However elegant the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.—Winston Churchill


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:40
Welcome to the forum Lee.

Do you know if these guys are going to be at SHOT next week? I am trying to work out my schedule for the site and if there is a new company with such an interesting pedigree, I would like to meet then.

ILya

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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com

Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful. Talmud


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:41
Kind words, nothing; get up off the 5 bucks!
[/QUOTE]

Well for a start Skylar is definitely not from Texas.
Nobody from Texas calls another guy 'mate'.

Lee


Posted By: Skylar McMahon
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:42
Lol, yes. I aforementioned that  to reference Fess Parker's character portrayal of Mr. Crockett. I felt it was ironic, because he too had a low tolerance. An effort to paint the whole visual image.


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Amat Victoria Curam


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:44
Originally posted by WJC WJC wrote:

Serious-Lee:

I think you will find things here much to your liking. First, you may go days without seeing a new post, because members deal with one thing at a time and let it go when an answer has been found, thus using the site as a tool and not a toy.

Also, it is refreshing in that the experienced can replace the pretentious “I believe,” “perhaps you may,” “but possibly,” “maybe,” “you might consider,” etc. with “is” and “are” without thin skinned speculators taking offense and whining to the site owner that you weren’t politically correct enough for THEIR taste and temperament.



Noted.

Lee


Posted By: Skylar McMahon
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:44
Originally posted by Troubador Troubador wrote:



Well for a start Skylar is definitely not from Texas.
Nobody from Texas calls another guy 'mate'.

Lee


Funny story about that. I had a friend (best mate) who was from Australia. Every day he would call and he greeting was;

" Mate, How you going? " Being around him often there is a distinct different in dialect that you pick up on. Seeing the location of UK, there are similarities in the tongue used. Thus calling you mate. I still wanted to be friendly with you regardless of the infraction.


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Amat Victoria Curam


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:46
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Welcome to the forum Lee.

Do you know if these guys are going to be at SHOT next week? I am trying to work out my schedule for the site and if there is a new company with such an interesting pedigree, I would like to meet then.

ILya


I am trying to find this out and will get back to you but aren't you in danger of leading me into breaking the sites rules here?????????? 

Lee


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:52
Originally posted by Skylar McMahon Skylar McMahon wrote:

Originally posted by Troubador Troubador wrote:



Well for a start Skylar is definitely not from Texas.
Nobody from Texas calls another guy 'mate'.

Lee


Funny story about that. I had a friend (best mate) who was from Australia. Every day he would call and he greeting was;

" Mate, How you going? " Being around him often there is a distinct different in dialect that you pick up on. Seeing the location of UK, there are similarities in the tongue used. Thus calling you mate. I still wanted to be friendly with you regardless of the infraction.


Well Mate I will respond in kind. I used to work with an uncle from South Africa ('uncle' being slang for guy at the time in South Africa) who used to spend about 5 months of the year in Australia and who always said 'G'day Mate' when he phoned me. When you called me 'mate' it took me back about 25 years to those days. You are right that 'mate' was commonly heard here at one time but I haven't heard it for some years.

OK how about some guidance? Ilya has asked if the new company marketing this new brand will be at SHOT. Is it  OK for me to post an answer to this if the company will be there? Sounds to me like I would be rule-bustin' to me.

Lee


Posted By: WJC
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 11:54
Originally posted by Skylar McMahon Skylar McMahon wrote:

Lol, yes. I aforementioned that  to reference Fess Parker's character portrayal of Mr. Crockett. I felt it was ironic, because he too had a low tolerance. An effort to paint the whole visual image.


When my boys were young, they were Crockett fanatics. So, when I found Fess was coming to Seattle, I wrote him to see if I could arrange a meeting. But he was coming up to promote his winery, and said every minute of his time in the area was already spoken for and that he was just a pawn to his schedule. When he got home, he sent an autographed photo of him in his Crockett regalia which I gave to my oldest son.   




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"However elegant the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.—Winston Churchill


Posted By: WJC
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 12:07
Originally posted by Troubador Troubador wrote:

Kind words, nothing; get up off the 5 bucks!


Well for a start Skylar is definitely not from Texas.
Nobody from Texas calls another guy 'mate'.

Lee
[/QUOTE]

Lee:

Most Texans don’t use “bloody,” either. However, this Pecos boy has used it since he was a pre-teen. Of course, in the Guns of Navarone, the over-used word was “Ruddy.”

Also, you will recall how I proffered that this site wasn’t over-used. Well, welcoming you has caused more message traffic than I have ever seen.   




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"However elegant the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.—Winston Churchill


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 12:49
Mostly, you can talk any brands you would like.  And in most cases it is ok to link directly to a manufacturers site.  But that doesn't seem to be a hard rule as sometimes the direct site may be a competitor to SWFA as some of them sell from their site and from SWFAs site.  But I have never seen SWFA have issues with talking about a brand even if they don't sell it.  Its just the links to competitors that get us spanked. 

The moderators do a superb job here.  And Skylar is outstanding at what he does for both this site and the SWFA store.  I personally like that they keep the hotlinks monitored and in check.  As they can often and do often lead to malicious sites.  I very seldom click on links any more because of all the security risks.  I just do the searches myself.  What Skylar did and his explanation of why seems makes a lot of sense.

This site is owned by SWFA.  So best practice when you want to add links to a product is to link to that product on SWFAs online store. 


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: jonoMT
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 13:00
Looking forward to hearing more about the actual products...and welcome aboard!

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Reaction time is a factor...


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 13:22
Originally posted by gunut gunut wrote:

they had better perform at an alpha level for half the big boy alpha prices, for at least 5 years B4 they can be looked at as a top level option....otherwise just another mid priced no name wannabe....


Gotta start somewhere, eh mate?  This isn't Chicom garbage.  


Posted By: CJarvis
Date Posted: January/10/2017 at 14:37
I'm going to be very leery of this brand until it's proven.

Michael Jensen was head of the Zeiss sports optics division when the Terra 3X came out. I believe the Terra line was misrepresented, and turned out to be a stinker.


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 03:59
Originally posted by gunut gunut wrote:

they had better perform at an alpha level for half the big boy alpha prices, for at least 5 years B4 they can be looked at as a top level option....otherwise just another mid priced no name wannabe....



So you are asking for Ferrari performance for a BMW price?
Sounds good to me.

And every business has to start somewhere and what better place to start than in the USA, the land of opportunity where everybody welcomes enterprise and wishes a new business all the luck in the world.

Lee


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 04:07
Originally posted by CJarvis CJarvis wrote:

I'm going to be very leery of this brand until it's proven.

Michael Jensen was head of the Zeiss sports optics division when the Terra 3X came out. I believe the Terra line was misrepresented, and turned out to be a stinker.


Its always wise to be cautious of new brands thats true and only time will tell whether this start-up can cut the mustard.

I know nothing about riflescopes but American Rifleman and On Target gave the Terra 3x good reviews, the latter finishing its review off with the statement "The Zeiss Terra 3X is more than a good scope; it’s a delightful way to save money".

Jensen also headed up Zeiss SPO USA when their HT, SF and Conquest HD models were introduced and they are none too shabby.

And show me the guy who never made a mistake and I'll show you a guy who never made anything.

Lee


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 04:08
Thanks for your welcome Pal.

Lee


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 07:14
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Looking forward to hearing more about the actual products...and welcome aboard!


Thanks for your welcome Jono.

Lee


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 09:43
Welcome to OT, Lee!

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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 10:06
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Welcome to OT, Lee!


Thanks for your welcome RifleDude, its a pleasure to be here.

Lee


Posted By: gunut
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 10:13
Originally posted by Troubador Troubador wrote:

Originally posted by gunut gunut wrote:

they had better perform at an alpha level for half the big boy alpha prices, for at least 5 years B4 they can be looked at as a top level option....otherwise just another mid priced no name wannabe....



So you are asking for Ferrari performance for a BMW price?
Sounds good to me.

And every business has to start somewhere and what better place to start than in the USA, the land of opportunity where everybody welcomes enterprise and wishes a new business all the luck in the world.

Lee

in order to challenge the big boys you have to offer something they don't have, and you better have a patent on it.....or something they do have but at a substantial discount.....otherwise Loco


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gunut


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 11:35
Originally posted by gunut gunut wrote:


So you are asking for Ferrari performance for a BMW price?
Sounds good to me.

And every business has to start somewhere and what better place to start than in the USA, the land of opportunity where everybody welcomes enterprise and wishes a new business all the luck in the world.

Lee

in order to challenge the big boys you have to offer something they don't have, and you better have a patent on it.....or something they do have but at a substantial discount.....otherwise Loco
[/QUOTE]

OK Gunny I'll go with that. For me the 'something' that the big boys don't have needn't be some new patented tech though, it could be a combination of stuff that nobody has put together correctly before. BTW I am not saying that GPO, USA product is like this, I haven't seen any of their product yet.
But I can imagine bins with the handling and FOV of Zeiss SF,  contrast and sharpness of Swaro EL and the colour rendition of Leica, with the focuser precision feel of Kowa Genesis but the focusing speed of Conquest HD, eyecups and rainguard from someone I haven't found yet because nobody seems to do these right. Got that? And all for the price of a Conquest HD?
Sounds good to me and I bet you have your own wish list too.

Lee


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 11:47
They are not showing at the Shot Show because the didn't have time to get a booth ordered. They will be meeting prospective customers and press by appointment.

Welcome to OT, Lee.

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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 12:05
Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

They are not showing at the Shot Show because the didn't have time to get a booth ordered. They will be meeting prospective customers and press by appointment.

Welcome to OT, Lee.


Thanks for the welcome Peddler.  Great avatar by the way.

You are right about GPO at SHOT. Mike Jensen will be in the NSSF lounge each day with a few samples of product and you can make an appointment by contacting him at the email address shown on the website.

Lee




Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 12:09
Peddlers tail to his posts:
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.
It is the same when you are stupid.

This reminded me of the one that goes:

Because light travels faster than sound, some folks can at first appear smart until they start to talk.

 Lee


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 13:49
I reached out to Mike Jensen (thanks, Lee) and will meet with him at SHOT.  I'll let you know what I think.

On forum rules:  Lee, general rule of thumb is that there is not problem talking about a brand SWFA does not sell.  The limitation is pretty simple: do not post links to other places that sell riflescopes. 

On Zeiss Terra 3X: a few samples I have seen were turds. 

On the team at ZPO: they obviously know how to get a good product to market.  I am very curious to see  what they have planned for their new products.

ILya




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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com

Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful. Talmud


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 14:07
Originally posted by Troubador Troubador wrote:

Peddlers tail to his posts:
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.
It is the same when you are stupid.

This reminded me of the one that goes:

Because light travels faster than sound, some folks can at first appear smart until they start to talk.

 Lee


👍🍸

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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 14:17
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I reached out to Mike Jensen (thanks, Lee) and will meet with him at SHOT.  I'll let you know what I think.

On forum rules:  Lee, general rule of thumb is that there is not problem talking about a brand SWFA does not sell.  The limitation is pretty simple: do not post links to other places that sell riflescopes. 

On Zeiss Terra 3X: a few samples I have seen were turds. 

On the team at ZPO: they obviously know how to get a good product to market.  I am very curious to see  what they have planned for their new products.

ILya




You are welcome ILya and thanks for the forum tips.
Remind me never to mount a turd on top of a rifle.
By ZPO did you mean GPO or has Mike Jensen changed the name already?

Lee



Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 15:27
Typo.

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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com

Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful. Talmud


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 15:54
Originally posted by gunut gunut wrote:


in order to challenge the big boys you have to offer something they don't have, and you better have a patent on it.....or something they do have but at a substantial discount.....otherwise Loco

Not hardly.  Ever heard of the law of diminishing returns?  I own several "alpha" binoculars, and a handful that give you 90-95% of the performance at fractions of the cost......Vortex Razor Hd, Conquest HD, Toric HD, Meostar HD are all superb.  


Posted By: WJC
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 16:03
JGRaider wrote:

"Not hardly.  Ever heard of the law of diminishing returns?  I own several "alpha" binoculars, and a handful that give you 90-95% of the performance at fractions of the cost......Vortex Razor Hd, Conquest HD, Toric HD, Meostar HD are all superb."

Everyone is different, but the average practical observer can carve that in stone; it's not likely to change.


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"However elegant the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.—Winston Churchill


Posted By: gunut
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 18:33
Originally posted by WJC WJC wrote:

JGRaider wrote:

"Not hardly.  Ever heard of the law of diminishing returns?  I own several "alpha" binoculars, and a handful that give you 90-95% of the performance at fractions of the cost......Vortex Razor Hd, Conquest HD, Toric HD, Meostar HD are all superb."

Everyone is different, but the average practical observer can carve that in stone; it's not likely to change.

like I said on the first page.....just another no name wannabe trying to carve out a spot in the middle of the road.....all the big boys already serve that clientele...and have a trusted reputation to maintain...and stand behind their products even the less than alpha models...and Zeiss even is doing a pretty good job with its low middle class offerings .........the new guy had better have a real good product, at a steal of a price, and some long term financial backing in order to get established....


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gunut


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 19:08
Time will tell.  That's what everyone said about Vortex 10 years ago.  


Posted By: gunut
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 19:36
Vortex doing OK....Zen Ray just a spot in the road....must have run out of cash....



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gunut


Posted By: JGRaider
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 20:16
Yep.  ZR is cheap Chinese junk with good optics IMO


Posted By: WJC
Date Posted: January/11/2017 at 21:24
Zen Ray was going to send me a Fujinon U.B.M.M. when I was in Lake Stevens so I could start doing their repair and collimation. Then, on learning I wouldn't be doing the work for my health—and I was only prepared to charge about a third of what the work was worth—they just lost interest. And that was 6 or 7 years ago.

I have no hard feelings; I understand. I lost a great deal of money and more than a little health trying to keep ATMJ going. Still, the Internet, and having to have a REAL job, drove a stake into the heart of my efforts.


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"However elegant the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.—Winston Churchill


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/12/2017 at 04:50
Originally posted by gunut gunut wrote:


like I said on the first page.....just another no name wannabe trying to carve out a spot in the middle of the road.....all the big boys already serve that clientele...and have a trusted reputation to maintain...and stand behind their products even the less than alpha models...and Zeiss even is doing a pretty good job with its low middle class offerings .........the new guy had better have a real good product, at a steal of a price, and some long term financial backing in order to get established....


Can't argue with much of that either Gunny. Jensen is well known in the outdoor sports business with his background including Remington and Zeiss among others. I wouldn't be surprised if he has got good finances. As to the product, we have to wait and see.

You are right about Zeiss's middle class stuff. I have HT and SF and wouldn't be without them but I love the Conqest HD 8x32 to bits. Its fast focus really works for me in some habitats and it is just such great value for money.

Lee


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/12/2017 at 04:54
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:


Not hardly.  Ever heard of the law of diminishing returns?  I own several "alpha" binoculars, and a handful that give you 90-95% of the performance at fractions of the cost......Vortex Razor Hd, Conquest HD, Toric HD, Meostar HD are all superb.  


I'll second that and add Kowa Genesis 8x33 to the list. I have experience of this, the MeoStar 8x32 and one of my all-time favourites the Conquest HD 8x32 and they are all terrific. For sure this new brand will have to work hard to find a place.

Lee


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/12/2017 at 04:56
Originally posted by gunut gunut wrote:

Vortex doing OK....Zen Ray just a spot in the road....must have run out of cash....



Gunny

Does anyone really know what has happened to ZR?

Lee


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/14/2017 at 03:33

GPO, USA has announced that they have hired Murski Breeding Sales to represent GPO, USA in 37 southern, central, northern, and eastern states while Total Sales & Marketing will represent GPO, USA in 13 western states. These sales agencies will be responsible for all channels of trade and all products within the GPO portfolio for these regions.

My understanding from folks in the industry is that it is almost unknown for companies of this calibre to take on a new start-up brand like this.

Lee



Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: January/14/2017 at 04:09
The Murski group has a large portfolio. I'm not familiar with the other group.

-------------
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/17/2017 at 11:49
The web site of the German company has gone live now.

Lee


Posted By: Klamath
Date Posted: January/18/2017 at 21:11
Originally posted by gunut gunut wrote:

Originally posted by WJC WJC wrote:

JGRaider wrote:

"Not hardly.  Ever heard of the law of diminishing returns?  I own several "alpha" binoculars, and a handful that give you 90-95% of the performance at fractions of the cost......Vortex Razor Hd, Conquest HD, Toric HD, Meostar HD are all superb."

Everyone is different, but the average practical observer can carve that in stone; it's not likely to change.

like I said on the first page.....just another no name wannabe trying to carve out a spot in the middle of the road.....all the big boys already serve that clientele...and have a trusted reputation to maintain...and stand behind their products even the less than alpha models...and Zeiss even is doing a pretty good job with its low middle class offerings .........the new guy had better have a real good product, at a steal of a price, and some long term financial backing in order to get established....


The thing about evaluating optics is to be sure to evaluate them for what they are.  Don't trash them out of the gate before anyone has seen them simply based on what they are not.  Our perceptions are key drivers of what serves to ultimately determine satisfaction, or lack of it.   Be prepared to see greatness, that is what you see when you look through the mighty alpha.  Be prepared to see a lesser instrument that is probably what you will see.  Objective analysis of an optic is not easy.

The mid range stuff has gotten so much better that there is precious little difference in optical specifications.  The difference is often less than the eye can see, but there are a lot of eyes that claim to see it.

You see a lot of new optics arrivals being started by people with prior optics experience.  There seems to be a decent history with the GPO folks.  Another new kid, Maven has, particularly in its bigger B2 model an alpha quality glass at $1,000.  They knew they had to aim big.  I bet GPO has that idea too.  Tract has good field use reports too.

Nice to see Lee here.  Welcome to OT Big Smile

Cheers

Steve C


-------------
Steve
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted". Albert Einstein



Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/19/2017 at 02:37
The thing about evaluating optics is to be sure to evaluate them for what they are.  Don't trash them out of the gate before anyone has seen them simply based on what they are not.  Our perceptions are key drivers of what serves to ultimately determine satisfaction, or lack of it.   Be prepared to see greatness, that is what you see when you look through the mighty alpha.  Be prepared to see a lesser instrument that is probably what you will see.  Objective analysis of an optic is not easy.

The mid range stuff has gotten so much better that there is precious little difference in optical specifications.  The difference is often less than the eye can see, but there are a lot of eyes that claim to see it.

You see a lot of new optics arrivals being started by people with prior optics experience.  There seems to be a decent history with the GPO folks.  Another new kid, Maven has, particularly in its bigger B2 model an alpha quality glass at $1,000.  They knew they had to aim big.  I bet GPO has that idea too.  Tract has good field use reports too.

Nice to see Lee here.  Welcome to OT Big Smile

Cheers

Steve C
[/QUOTE]


Hi Steve
Many thanks for your greeting, its great to be here.  I can only echo what you have said. The middle ground of sports optics has been upping its game for a while now and this can only be good for us.
Just learned that one of the other members of the management team of GPO Germany (which, we should remind ourselves, is a separate company from GPO, USA) is ex-Meopta. Sounds like they have a strong foundation.

Lee


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: January/19/2017 at 05:15

I have a Nikon Monarch 10x42 binocular... have had it for at least 10 years.  My assessment of it is, it is OK, certainly not great.  A very moderately priced binocular.  I've had "hands on" on much of the "alpha" glass and they are certainly better optically.  My biggest complaint with the Nikon is low light performance.  It is just adequate, I've seen much better.  In "broad daylight" it is just fine.  My wife has a Canon 8x motion stabilized that is very good, but once again, a little lacking for low light observation.  Glass could be better... it's not bad, but it "ain't Swaro or Zeiss" (It isn't Meopta, either).  One of the programs I worked a while back used high end Fujinon.  I liked all the ones we had available.  Some 10x, some variables... very nice. 

I'm not a big binocular fan, sometimes carry because I just have to.  However, in the thick wooded areas I hunt in Alabama, mostly stalking, I don't find a binocular very useful.  Stand hunting or glassing in big open areas with cover... I have to grudgingly admit that a binocular is a friend.  I already carry pretty much anything I need for any situation in the woods/fields... a binocular is an added inconvenience to me, for the most part.  I pick carefully where I think I will need a binocular, use it when I must.  A couple of times, I've guessed wrong... needed it, didn't have it... lived over it. 

Some day, I will settle on something in the alpha range... just have not found the one that really tweaked me, yet.  I watch the commentaries here and in a couple of birdwatching places... I have some ideas, just not strong enough to push me to a final decision, yet.  When I choose one, I expect it to be the last one I ever buy. 



-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: bugsNbows
Date Posted: January/19/2017 at 06:41
Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

The Murski group has a large portfolio. I'm not familiar with the other group.

I'm familiar with these folks. Mike was my host for the Texas trip I took a couple of years ago. Stayed at their ranch. It was awesome. Mike was super nice too. Excellent


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If we're not suppose to eat animals...how come they're made of meat?
               Anomymous


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/20/2017 at 11:50
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I have a Nikon Monarch 10x42 binocular... have had it for at least 10 years.  My assessment of it is, it is OK, certainly not great.  A very moderately priced binocular.  I've had "hands on" on much of the "alpha" glass and they are certainly better optically.  My biggest complaint with the Nikon is low light performance.  It is just adequate, I've seen much better.  In "broad daylight" it is just fine.  My wife has a Canon 8x motion stabilized that is very good, but once again, a little lacking for low light observation.  Glass could be better... it's not bad, but it "ain't Swaro or Zeiss" (It isn't Meopta, either).  One of the programs I worked a while back used high end Fujinon.  I liked all the ones we had available.  Some 10x, some variables... very nice. 

I'm not a big binocular fan, sometimes carry because I just have to.  However, in the thick wooded areas I hunt in Alabama, mostly stalking, I don't find a binocular very useful.  Stand hunting or glassing in big open areas with cover... I have to grudgingly admit that a binocular is a friend.  I already carry pretty much anything I need for any situation in the woods/fields... a binocular is an added inconvenience to me, for the most part.  I pick carefully where I think I will need a binocular, use it when I must.  A couple of times, I've guessed wrong... needed it, didn't have it... lived over it. 

Some day, I will settle on something in the alpha range... just have not found the one that really tweaked me, yet.  I watch the commentaries here and in a couple of birdwatching places... I have some ideas, just not strong enough to push me to a final decision, yet.  When I choose one, I expect it to be the last one I ever buy. 



There are plenty of great bins out there and you don't have to buy an alpha to get a good view but if you want to stretch that far then Zeiss's HT takes some beating. My preference for nature observation is to swap between the big FOV SF 8x42 or fast-focusing Conquest HD 8x32, but for all round versatility especially in dull conditions or dusk then HT is one good way to go.
Lee


Posted By: Wood
Date Posted: January/24/2017 at 23:03
 That's Daniel Boone!
Originally posted by Skylar McMahon Skylar McMahon wrote:

Originally posted by WJC WJC wrote:

Originally posted by Skylar McMahon Skylar McMahon wrote:

I may have jumped the gun. However, historically introductory posts like this on the OT have clouded several sections of the forum with undesired commentary, urls, and other potentially malicious content.

I have no doubt that he's probably knowledgeable and would make contributions to the forum. However we diligently work to keep this place clean from links to foreign and potentially malicious website to protect its members. I didn't follow the link, however it was flagged by a fellow member and upon seeing and the minimal post count thus far, lead me to the conclusion to warn him and remove the outgoing url.

I hope that you gentlemen may understand the position I am in. I meant no ill will towards Lee and would like to see more from him.


Crap, an apologetic explanation! I guess that means we don't get to beat you. Well, you are, after all from Texas.

Pecos Bill


Like Davy Crockett



-------------
God is good


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/26/2017 at 11:21
Originally posted by Troubador Troubador wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I have a Nikon Monarch 10x42 binocular... have had it for at least 10 years.  My assessment of it is, it is OK, certainly not great.  A very moderately priced binocular.  I've had "hands on" on much of the "alpha" glass and they are certainly better optically.  My biggest complaint with the Nikon is low light performance.  It is just adequate, I've seen much better.  In "broad daylight" it is just fine.  My wife has a Canon 8x motion stabilized that is very good, but once again, a little lacking for low light observation.  Glass could be better... it's not bad, but it "ain't Swaro or Zeiss" (It isn't Meopta, either).  One of the programs I worked a while back used high end Fujinon.  I liked all the ones we had available.  Some 10x, some variables... very nice. 

I'm not a big binocular fan, sometimes carry because I just have to.  However, in the thick wooded areas I hunt in Alabama, mostly stalking, I don't find a binocular very useful.  Stand hunting or glassing in big open areas with cover... I have to grudgingly admit that a binocular is a friend.  I already carry pretty much anything I need for any situation in the woods/fields... a binocular is an added inconvenience to me, for the most part.  I pick carefully where I think I will need a binocular, use it when I must.  A couple of times, I've guessed wrong... needed it, didn't have it... lived over it. 

Some day, I will settle on something in the alpha range... just have not found the one that really tweaked me, yet.  I watch the commentaries here and in a couple of birdwatching places... I have some ideas, just not strong enough to push me to a final decision, yet.  When I choose one, I expect it to be the last one I ever buy. 



There are plenty of great bins out there and you don't have to buy an alpha to get a good view but if you want to stretch that far then Zeiss's HT takes some beating. My preference for nature observation is to swap between the big FOV SF 8x42 or fast-focusing Conquest HD 8x32, but for all round versatility especially in dull conditions or dusk then HT is one good way to go.
Lee

I tried to meet Mike Jensen at SHOT, but it did not pan out.  I guess he was too busy.

As far as binos go, I never warmed up to the Conquest HD.  I'll take the Meostar over it any day.  The SF is a nice piece of glass though.

With all that, roaming around SHOT, I stumbled onto Leica Noctivid and was hugely impressed.  Going back and forth between Leica, Swaro and Zeiss booths, I thought that Swaro and Leica pulled away from Zeiss a bit.  I should probably do a side by side one of these days.  Based on what I saw so far, I think I'll pick up 8x42 Noctivids. 

ILya


-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com

Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful. Talmud


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/26/2017 at 14:18
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


As far as binos go, I never warmed up to the Conquest HD.  I'll take the Meostar over it any day.  The SF is a nice piece of glass though.

With all that, roaming around SHOT, I stumbled onto Leica Noctivid and was hugely impressed.  Going back and forth between Leica, Swaro and Zeiss booths, I thought that Swaro and Leica pulled away from Zeiss a bit.  I should probably do a side by side one of these days.  Based on what I saw so far, I think I'll pick up 8x42 Noctivids. 

ILya


MeoStars are great bins. I reviewed the 8x32 and liked it a lot. However the stiff focuser (designed to not move inadvertantly) means it is unsuitable for the purpose that I find the Conquest HD excels at and that is working an insect rich habitat. The little Conquest's focus speed is about double that of HT and SF so is perfect for places with lots of butterflies and dragonflies etc but which also have distant birds popping up too. So in the south of France I work the Conquest really hard. I tried Nvids at British Bird Fair and liked them but I find SF 8x42's huge field of view compelling in the Western Isles of Scotland when scanning for stuff that dives under water and you haven't a clue where they will re-surface. So stuff like Otters and Seals and diving birds like Loons and Mergansers and so on.

Lee


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/28/2017 at 22:47
Originally posted by Troubador Troubador wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


As far as binos go, I never warmed up to the Conquest HD.  I'll take the Meostar over it any day.  The SF is a nice piece of glass though.

With all that, roaming around SHOT, I stumbled onto Leica Noctivid and was hugely impressed.  Going back and forth between Leica, Swaro and Zeiss booths, I thought that Swaro and Leica pulled away from Zeiss a bit.  I should probably do a side by side one of these days.  Based on what I saw so far, I think I'll pick up 8x42 Noctivids. 

ILya


MeoStars are great bins. I reviewed the 8x32 and liked it a lot. However the stiff focuser (designed to not move inadvertantly) means it is unsuitable for the purpose that I find the Conquest HD excels at and that is working an insect rich habitat. The little Conquest's focus speed is about double that of HT and SF so is perfect for places with lots of butterflies and dragonflies etc but which also have distant birds popping up too. So in the south of France I work the Conquest really hard. I tried Nvids at British Bird Fair and liked them but I find SF 8x42's huge field of view compelling in the Western Isles of Scotland when scanning for stuff that dives under water and you haven't a clue where they will re-surface. So stuff like Otters and Seals and diving birds like Loons and Mergansers and so on.

Lee

That makes sense.  I am not a birder, so my use is different.  I did not like the focuser on the Conquest HD and every pair I have seen to date gave me a headache, so I suspect a collimation issue.  Meopta focuser, on the other hand was smooth and almost perfect for my use.

With the Noctivid vs SF, until I do a proper comparison, it is hard to tell for sure, but it seemed to handles flare and high dynamic range scenes better.  It is the same effect as I see with Leica photographic lenses: color rendering just outside bright spots is superior to everything else I have seen to date.

ILya


-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com

Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful. Talmud


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/29/2017 at 09:44
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Troubador Troubador wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:


As far as binos go, I never warmed up to the Conquest HD.  I'll take the Meostar over it any day.  The SF is a nice piece of glass though.

With all that, roaming around SHOT, I stumbled onto Leica Noctivid and was hugely impressed.  Going back and forth between Leica, Swaro and Zeiss booths, I thought that Swaro and Leica pulled away from Zeiss a bit.  I should probably do a side by side one of these days.  Based on what I saw so far, I think I'll pick up 8x42 Noctivids. 

ILya


MeoStars are great bins. I reviewed the 8x32 and liked it a lot. However the stiff focuser (designed to not move inadvertantly) means it is unsuitable for the purpose that I find the Conquest HD excels at and that is working an insect rich habitat. The little Conquest's focus speed is about double that of HT and SF so is perfect for places with lots of butterflies and dragonflies etc but which also have distant birds popping up too. So in the south of France I work the Conquest really hard. I tried Nvids at British Bird Fair and liked them but I find SF 8x42's huge field of view compelling in the Western Isles of Scotland when scanning for stuff that dives under water and you haven't a clue where they will re-surface. So stuff like Otters and Seals and diving birds like Loons and Mergansers and so on.

Lee

That makes sense.  I am not a birder, so my use is different.  I did not like the focuser on the Conquest HD and every pair I have seen to date gave me a headache, so I suspect a collimation issue.  Meopta focuser, on the other hand was smooth and almost perfect for my use.

With the Noctivid vs SF, until I do a proper comparison, it is hard to tell for sure, but it seemed to handles flare and high dynamic range scenes better.  It is the same effect as I see with Leica photographic lenses: color rendering just outside bright spots is superior to everything else I have seen to date.

ILya


ILya

Well, I am not a birder either, hence my references to butterflies, dragonflies, seals and otters, as well as birds.

Sorry to hear you have trouble with Conquests and suspect collimation to be the cause. I presume you mean collimation of your eyes, but don't lose hope, its amazing what they can do with laser surgery and a thwack on the back of the head. Big Grin

Cheers Lee


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: January/29/2017 at 09:45
ILya

Just joking pal

Lee


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/29/2017 at 15:27
Originally posted by Troubador Troubador wrote:

ILya

Just joking pal

Lee

No worries.  Besides, if thwack on the head counted as a positive, I would be well ahead of the curve...

ILya


-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com

Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful. Talmud


Posted By: jonoMT
Date Posted: January/30/2017 at 14:21
Those Noctivids sound impressive. Out of curiosity, do SHOT vendors arrange outdoor viewing sessions? Or how do you get to really evaluate optics there? 

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Reaction time is a factor...


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: January/30/2017 at 14:38
Can't really do it inside as Ilya said he would like to do a comparison. All you can do at the show is see how they appear to work under those conditions. Looking at signs, dark areas etc.

-------------
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/30/2017 at 21:24
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Those Noctivids sound impressive. Out of curiosity, do SHOT vendors arrange outdoor viewing sessions? Or how do you get to really evaluate optics there? 

There is a limited number of things you can do indoors, so it is a very incomplete evaluation.  They have these weird lights that cause purple flair in everything.  With Noctivids, I could comfortably resolve the facets on the inner facets on the reflector surfaces of the lamp without inducing flair, CA, etc.  And I could stills the shadow detail in the dark area to the side of the lamp.

ILya


-------------
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com

Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful. Talmud


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: February/07/2017 at 11:34
Just learned from GPO, USA that they will have HD bins in stock on around March 1st as well as the first rifle scopes, with the ED models and more rifle scopes arriving one month later.

Lee


Posted By: perterra
Date Posted: February/21/2017 at 09:06
Hey Lee, good to see you, hows it going?


I'm anxious to see their offerings, Jensen says their offering will stand toe to toe with any of the big boys at a very competitive price. Knowing his history with Swaro and Zeiss, I suspect it will. 


Posted By: Troubador
Date Posted: March/01/2017 at 11:04
Hi Gerald

Sorry for the delay in replying. Like you I think Jensen is too canny to stake his reputation on product that is less than solid. I hope to get a chance to try out the product at an early date but since he is just starting out and dealers will be looking for deliveries too, I can imagine his first shipment of HDs (due soon) will not touch the floor before they go out of the door.

Good to hear from you

Lee



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