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Slam Fire

Printed From: OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc.
Category: Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition
Forum Name: Firearms
Forum Description: All makes, models and uses
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=44244
Printed Date: July/23/2017 at 09:58


Topic: Slam Fire
Posted By: supertool73
Subject: Slam Fire
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 14:51
Just went and shot my 6.5 creed AR.  Fired 17 rounds of factory 143 ELDX rounds.  First 5 shot fine.  I reloaded 5 more in mag and fired first shot.  Pulled trigger and it fired two rounds.  Trigger did not reset.  Bolt appeared to be completely closed on a fresh round, but would not fire.  Manually ran action to eject round.  Went and inspected brass from slam fire and it looked fine to me.  Function checked rifle with both upper and and off.  Trigger hammer appears to be working as it should locking back until I reset trigger.

Loaded up 5 round and fired, again double fire.  3rd round did same thing.  So I did the same thing as before.  Everything appeared to be functioning fine.

Loaded up 5 rounds and fired.  Double fire again.  3 round did same thing.  This time one of the primers was pierced.  But I see no other signs of pressure.   

Loaded up again.  Now for the rest of the rounds it would only fire 1 shot and the next round woudl chamber but trigger not releasing.  I don't think the bolt was going complete into battery. 

I checked chamber and bore during all this several time.  Could see nothing obvious.  Function checked it multiple times it all checked out.  Brass all looked fine except that one round.

You guys got any ideas?

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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."



Replies:
Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 14:54
Did you build or is it factory?

On the slam-fire, I've had it happen on a well worn Wilson combat trigger, but never a new gun.  Is it an AR10 trigger or an AR15 trigger?

On AR10 break-in, you need to lube the hell out of the bolt, that might explain the "bolt not returning" but does nothing for the slam fires.

You have a few problems, separate them mentally or this will drive you nuts.


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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 15:29
I built it.  I ran about 100 rounds through this same gun with a .308 barrel and never had an issue.  Switched to the 6.5 barrel and now issues. 

Elftmann tactical trigger.  Their site says both AR-10 and AR-15 triggers.  My package said it is for both.

WHere it ran the .308 barrel fine, I really just wonder if Hornady primers and soft and it was from the floating Pin.   


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 15:31
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:


On AR10 break-in, you need to lube the hell out of the bolt, that might explain the "bolt not returning" but does nothing for the slam fires.




I talked to my cousin just now.  He is an armorer.  He said.  A runaway will actually fire before the bolt fully seats which will give you odd pressures and could help contribute to it not going back into battery. 


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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 15:39
Okay, more details help.

Listen to your cousin.


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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 15:46
more texts from cousin.  He thinks to start with soft primers where it ran fine with the .308 barrel.  I will make some ammo with federal primers and see what happens. 

If that don't work switch the trigger to a known good trigger and put Elftmann in a known good AR-15 and see what happens with it.    


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 16:06
Another thing just popped in my head.  First 5 rounds did not have my silencer on it as I was testing to make sure things worked properly.

All the issues happened with my silencer on it.  hmm.  I guess I have one more variable to deal with now.




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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 16:32
Interesting. I'm thinking more soft primers, less trigger issue. 

All rounds that slam fired had the same primers?    


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 16:33

Take the suppressor off.  if it does not malfunction you have a faulty suppressor, send to me for disposal Big Grin




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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 16:35
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Interesting. I'm thinking more soft primers, less trigger issue. 

All rounds that slam fired had the same primers?    


Yes, I just had a box of Hornady 143 gain ELDX ammo.  Factory. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 16:37
One thing is for sure, that Elftmann trigger is outstanding.  That whole glass rod thing is really the case with it.  It feels amazing. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: cheaptrick
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 16:48
I've heard of issues with Winchester primers and AR's.  

Good luck. I know you'll get it resolved. 


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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: July/14/2017 at 18:08
Was it the same BCG with the 308 barrel?

I've seen this happen before when the firing pin was getting a little stuck in the firing position.  Extra gas from the suppressor would not make it better if the firing pin sticks.

ILya


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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://www.opticsthoughts.com - opticsthoughts.smugmug.com
Those who are merciful to the cruel, are cruel to the merciful.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: July/15/2017 at 14:37
The the lug of my bolt that goes in the right side feed ramp is chipped. Its the front of the lug by the chamer though.

Its also on the left side of the lug. So oposite of the way it turns.

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: July/15/2017 at 15:33
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Was it the same BCG with the 308 barrel?

I've seen this happen before when the firing pin was getting a little stuck in the firing position.  Extra gas from the suppressor would not make it better if the firing pin sticks.

ILya


Yes, same bcg. I tore bolt group apart. I can't see anything or anywhere to cause a handup with the firing pin. I can slid pin in and out of bolt very smoothly.

Wondering now if its to much gas. Will try to shoot some more next week.

-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: Rancid Coolaid
Date Posted: July/15/2017 at 16:24
AR10s are notoriously overgassed, and a can makes it worse.

Let us know.

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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


Posted By: Steelbenz
Date Posted: July/17/2017 at 07:38
☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼 This!

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"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: July/17/2017 at 09:27
Jason, do you have another AR10 that runs reliably? 
If so, substitute the bolt head, cam pin, and firing pin from it into this new AR10, lube the everloving crap out of the works, and see if the problem persists. If it cures the problem, remove 1 part at a time and switch between the 2 rifles to see where the likely culprit is.


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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: July/17/2017 at 09:39
I don't have another.

I am starting the process today with different primers.  Then I will adjust my gas down to nothing and slowly turn it up and see what happens.  If one of those don't fix it, I will go to firing pin, then trigger. 

Its just crazy, it ran just fine with the .308 barrel and my .308 suppressor.  I just couldn't resist the itch for the 6.5 barrel though. 

I made up 40 rounds with 2 different primers and will hopefully find some time to shoot today on my lunch break.

And for the record it is and has been oozing lube.   Bucky


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: supertool73
Date Posted: July/17/2017 at 11:19
Well I scheduled a meeting during my lunch, so I went and shot it just now.  I turned the gas way down.  It shot 100% reliable with both primers.  I slowly turned the gas up 1/4 turn every two shots and it eventually double fired again.  Turned it back down 1/4 turn and it was back to normal.  So it appears it was just a to much gas issue. 

Only issue is it never once locked the bolt back on empty mag.  I will put a lighter spring on the buffer as I think I started with the heaviest one. 


-------------
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."


Posted By: SVT_Tactical
Date Posted: July/17/2017 at 14:50
yeah setting a gas gun up for suppressor is a bickle fitch.

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"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln



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