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The New March Genesis 6-60x56 FFP

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Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Rifle Scopes
Forum Description: Centerfire long gun scopes
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=44722
Printed Date: July/22/2018 at 14:51
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: The New March Genesis 6-60x56 FFP
Posted By: South Pender
Subject: The New March Genesis 6-60x56 FFP
Date Posted: March/10/2018 at 12:48
The latest offering from March Optics is the 6-60x56mm. FFP scope designed for ELR shooters.

Here's a picture, followed by specifications:

http://www.marchscopes.co.uk/genesis-6x-60x56.html - http://www.marchscopes.co.uk/genesis-6x-60x56.html


(To acquire the picture and information, highlight the link, right click on your mouse, and choose "Open Link".)

Made the link hot



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Vancouver



Replies:
Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: March/10/2018 at 19:58
Very very interesting!!!

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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: 338LAPUASLAP
Date Posted: April/13/2018 at 02:08
What.  Is this for real?

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No one


Posted By: Scrumbag
Date Posted: April/13/2018 at 03:07
Yep, being touted as the next big thing. Though I've never really got on with March scopes I must admit

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Was sure I had a point when I started this post...


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: April/13/2018 at 18:10
It is for real, but not quite here yet.  It should be an interesting solution for ELR.

ILya


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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: April/13/2018 at 20:15
 For all that it provides, the price seems to be reasonable, as well.  Looks like a game changer.

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: Urimaginaryfrnd
Date Posted: April/13/2018 at 21:40
my that is a lot of magnification should be intense being behind a 60x

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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: April/14/2018 at 11:01
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:


For all that it provides, the price seems to be reasonable, as well.  Looks like a game changer.


In what way?

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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: April/14/2018 at 14:47

 I'm basing my assumptions on the fact that I expect this scope to be of the same excellent quality of every March scope I've had my hands on... now 10 of them.

First, it requires no rings... attachment built in... only needs a rail (that does not have to have any slope).  It has 400MOA of elevation adjustment, approximately 300 "UP".  The adjustments on every March I've touched have been excellent... I expect the same on this entry.  Being March, it will have excellent glass.   I like the reticle.  It has enough magnification to actually "keep up" with EXTREME Long Range shooting (yeah, I know, the objective isn't really big enough for that magnification, but, for me, I think it will be adequate).  To me, it is in a reasonable price range for what is being provided.  Most of all, I expect it to force most of the "big optics providers" to step up THEIR game a bit to try to keep up.  (once "the box" is opened... it can't/won't be closed)  Therefore, it changes the "game".  I've already heard some mutterings that "they are trying to do too much in one package".  I don't think so... I have a lot of faith in technology and mechanics.  It weighs 3.3lbs... there are others that do with MUCH less capability.

OK, it is a "niche" market.. but that "niche" grows larger every day...  It may be more magnification than I ever need.  But it doesn't matter to me if I "NEED" it... just that I want it... and someday, I may need it...

I know there are a number of assumptions there, but I expect the best of people/companies... sometimes disappointed, sometimes not.  So far, in most categories, the "nots" are winning...

If I stay with "traditional optics", this one is very high on my list.



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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: April/14/2018 at 15:16
For me, traditional optics does not even come close to this scope.....and mil-MOA?


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Doug


Posted By: Peddler
Date Posted: April/14/2018 at 15:30
⬆️ Im with Doug.

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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: April/14/2018 at 15:32
 I'm talking "traditional optics" versus digital...

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: April/14/2018 at 16:33
I see Dan, but as a hunter this beast leaves much to be desired aesthetically.
Maybe this thread should be in tactical scopes.


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Doug


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: April/15/2018 at 11:24
 There are circumstances where I could see using it for hunting, but it is certainly not intended as a primary hunting scope... not in those power ranges... but not eliminated, either.  There are also tactical applications, many, but I don't see this as primarily tactical, either.  Probably more a competition scope, at least from my perspective.  But, to say for sure, would have to use one a bit to truly get a good feel.  Digital scopes are certainly not intended for entirely tactical applications.

-------------
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: April/17/2018 at 00:34
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

 I'm basing my assumptions on the fact that I expect this scope to be of the same excellent quality of every March scope I've had my hands on... now 10 of them.

First, it requires no rings... attachment built in... only needs a rail (that does not have to have any slope).  It has 400MOA of elevation adjustment, approximately 300 "UP".  The adjustments on every March I've touched have been excellent... I expect the same on this entry.  Being March, it will have excellent glass.   I like the reticle.  It has enough magnification to actually "keep up" with EXTREME Long Range shooting (yeah, I know, the objective isn't really big enough for that magnification, but, for me, I think it will be adequate).  To me, it is in a reasonable price range for what is being provided.  Most of all, I expect it to force most of the "big optics providers" to step up THEIR game a bit to try to keep up.  (once "the box" is opened... it can't/won't be closed)  Therefore, it changes the "game".  I've already heard some mutterings that "they are trying to do too much in one package".  I don't think so... I have a lot of faith in technology and mechanics.  It weighs 3.3lbs... there are others that do with MUCH less capability.

OK, it is a "niche" market.. but that "niche" grows larger every day...  It may be more magnification than I ever need.  But it doesn't matter to me if I "NEED" it... just that I want it... and someday, I may need it...

I know there are a number of assumptions there, but I expect the best of people/companies... sometimes disappointed, sometimes not.  So far, in most categories, the "nots" are winning...

If I stay with "traditional optics", this one is very high on my list.


I do not think there is going to be much of a response to this scope from other scope makers, although anything is possible.

Externally adjustable scope is an old idea, but March does have a new take on it which I find interesting.  For ELR, the scope will need to be lifted higher, otherwise the barrel will get in the way.  The scope is still in development, so a lot of things are still unknown.  I think the configuration as presented is a missed opportunity for March to really differentiate themselves, but we'll see how it all looks when the development is finished.

ILya


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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: Kickboxer
Date Posted: April/17/2018 at 20:32
 Depends on market response.  However, I believe it will cause some adjustment range increases.  Yes, we will have to wait and see how it turns out.  But March is pretty good...

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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living


Posted By: SageRatSafaris
Date Posted: July/15/2018 at 12:47

I sent an message to March asking whether the elevation dials limited the use of the internal elevation travel. Their reply is pretty interesting:

Thank you for your inquiry. March scopes are not travel limited by the dials and often have a bit more range than advertised, however we cannot make any claims as to how much further any particular scope will go due to variations from one scope to the next.

Extreme long range scopes present a tough challenge for modern scope manufacturers, particularly when tasked with being able to shoot 2 plus miles all the way down to 100 yards. The technical issues here go beyond developing a scope with an erector tube that has a huge range of motion. All traditional rifle scopes suffer from a loss of clarity the further away the turrets are dialed from the optical centerline of the scope. This is a universal truth that applies to every telescopic rifle scope but it is seldom brought up or talked about. As each manufacturer tries to one-up their competition, range of turret adjustment has grown and grown to the point that the optics can be pretty poor at the extremes of their travel. High end scopes like March are caught in a conundrum where they prefer to limit turret adjustment based on the optical clarity they want their scopes to have but feel pressured to keep up with industry trends set by their competitors of selling scopes with more and more range of adjustment. For most shooting disciplines, an appropriate MOA base can be purchased to get a rifle on target at most any distance while keeping the turrets fairly close to the optical centerline. The further the range, the more important this becomes so that optical clarity can be maximized at greater distances.

The new March Genesis scope has broken away from this traditional approach and its inherent limitations. Instead of using an erector tube to shift the internal position of the reticle off-center in the lens assembly, they have designed a scope within a scope such that the shooter is always looking through the centerline of the internal lenses. That inner scope is then physically aimed as a unit using the external turrets in a unique sealed gimble mechanism. So, in addition to eliminating the possibility of zoom shift by using a First Focal Plane design and the convenience of a tree reticle in the first focal plane, they have maximized optical clarity at every turret setting, no matter how extreme.

Let me review the latest data for the Genesis scope. It comes with 150 MOA built into the integral Picatinny mount, has 350 MOA of elevation travel up and 50 MOA of elevation travel down. The tree reticle has 100 MOA of hold-over and hold-under. This means that to get to your 100 yard zero, you have to match the 150 MOA mount going back down. To do this you need to dial the turret down 50 MOA and use the 100 MOA of hold-under on the reticle. This should be no problem considering that 100 yards at a 2-mile competition should seem very close up. On the distance end however, you have the 150 MOA in the base plus 350 MOA more in the turret for 500 MOA up and that is before you even get into the lower half of the tree reticle. Windage also has ample range with 75 MOA on tap in either direction with turret markings that make it easy to keep track of full rotations.

I noted that the vast majority of the scopes on your list are under 30x. At ranges over 1000 yards, the 60x capability of the Genesis should deliver a noticeable advantage, especially considering the clarity of the optics and the optically centered field of view that never wavers. The tree reticle will be available in both Mil and MOA divisions to keep everyone happy. The factory is working hard to get this scope into production but we don’t yet have an expected delivery date. We are very excited about this scope because of its unique design, extreme range of adjustment, high magnification optics and solid design and construction. The Genesis scope is aptly named; it promises to be a real game changer for ELR competitions. Here’s a link to keep up on details and availability:  http://marchopticsusa.com/shop/brand_march-optics/firstfocalplane/6-60x56mm-scope - http://marchopticsusa.com/shop/brand_march-optics/firstfocalplane/6-60x56mm-scope

Best Regards,

Dave Albers
Optical Technician
March Optics USA




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Tom

https://sageratsafaris.com/2018/06/16/master-list-ffp-long-range-rifle-scopes/ - My master list of FFP long range rifle scopes


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: July/16/2018 at 00:50
I know and like Dave Albers and he is a good advocate for March.

Genesis is a new take on an old idea of using external adjustments in riflescopes.  It is not a bad way to go, of done right and March may very well do it right.  The proof is always in the actual use, so we will know more when the product gets there.

There are several things in the way they configured the Genesis scope that are weird to me and some things that Dave says are odd to me.  That having been said, I am very curious to see how this scope does.

There is more than one way to do ELR, and I am not convinced that the Genesis design is the best way to go about, but it is definitely a viable way.  We will see how it all shakes out.

ILya 


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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge


Posted By: SageRatSafaris
Date Posted: July/16/2018 at 10:51
I'm curious how the Genesis compares to setups using adjustable bases like the Cold Shot and Ivey or with a Charlie TARAC. 

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Tom

https://sageratsafaris.com/2018/06/16/master-list-ffp-long-range-rifle-scopes/ - My master list of FFP long range rifle scopes


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: July/17/2018 at 01:13
Conceptually, I like the TARAC, primarily because it works with multiple scopes and because it raises the line of sight a bit.

Still, it is nice to have options.

ILya


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http://www.opticsthoughts.com - www.opticsthoughts.com
http://fb.me/DarkLordOfOptics - Facebook
The greatest obstacle to discovery is the illusion of knowledge



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