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Things I Know

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Category: Scopes
Forum Name: Rifle Scopes
Forum Description: Centerfire long gun scopes
URL: http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5577
Printed Date: March/28/2024 at 20:25
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Topic: Things I Know
Posted By: mwyates
Subject: Things I Know
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 16:29

1) Leupold makes good scopes; some are overpriced, but nearly all companies make some scopes that are overpriced. 

 

2) Swarovski has a better marketing department than Leupold; The average joe will tell you that Swaro is the best binocular, but those who know, know different.

 

3) The best sign of an inexperienced shooter/hunter is that he is overgunned and overscoped (I think I just made that word up)

 

4) You can get a really good scope from any maker.

 

5) You can get a bad scope from any maker; but you have a better chance at a bad one from the lower tier companies.

 

6) SWFA is a great company to do business with.

 

7) I've been hanging around here for 2 1/2 years.  It was fun at first with a lot of good information.  Now, like a lot of the Internet, there's so much crap that it's not worth the effort to find the good stuff.  I'm going to go read and play my guitar.

 

 

 

 




Replies:
Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 16:34
I do not know if Swaro has a better marketing department than Leupold, but both seem to be pretty good at marketing their products.  Either way neither Swaro nor Leupold would release their marketing budget figures, so this is just speculation.

I do agree with the rest of what you posted though, except that I do not own a guitar.

ILya


Posted By: guitarman
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 16:50

Hey dudes, it's been awhile.  I just felt the need to say that I agree with everything mwyates just said, and I have been reading and playing my guitar as well.  I have dropped in from time to time with keen interest to see what you all have to say though.  The concensus seems to be that Leupold makes poor optics and they are on the brink of destruction (a hint of sarcasm).  I happen to disagree...

 

I talked to a very knowledgeable employee at Scheels about a month ago, and he informed me that all of the optics companies have relatively overpriced scopes.  He cited Burris, Nikon (wasn't particularly impressed with the Monarch), and Leupold, to name a few.

 

I also know that in the guitar world, the companies that have moved production overseas make a larger profit than those that have chosen to stay domestic (ie. Gibson guitar company) because of the extremely cheap overseas labor supply.  Gibson also remains the standard by which other guitars are judged by, in the same way that Leupold seems to set the standard in the rifle scope world.  Anyway...the world grows smaller by the minute...

 

Am I implying that the same is true in the rifle scope industry?  Not necessarily, but perhaps...



Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 16:52

Swaro although overpriced does not have emmbarasing products. There are over 100 riflescope makers now and you canot get a good product from all of them. If you dont know dont post with history. Leupold,weaver,redfield..........times have changed, move foreward. f**k gun magazines. I am getting ready to go do some shooting and comparing tonight. I look foreward to 2007,it is going to be a great year.



Posted By: guitarman
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 16:58
I hardly think that Leupold's products are "emmbarasing."  They would go bankrupt trying to fulfill their warranty requirements if they were.


Posted By: rootmanslim
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:12
GTman, you can't be a part of the in crowd at OT unless you HATE Leupold for their success. You gotta embrace the super expensive Euro scopes or bow at the knee of his imperial majesty of Japan. Then and only then will you have any "in" on OT. I am surprised SWFA still sells Leupold as all the experts here know they are inferior overpriced over marketed junk. Don't be put off that there is no quantative data to support those claims TRUST ME , they fall apart all over the place YOU MUST BELIEVE!!! DRIVE OUT THOSE LEUPOLD DEMONS! The worst Nikon is superior to any Leupold and don't be concerned that you can't get it fixed because it will never fail. The reason Leupold has such a great warranty is to placate all the fools who buy them in the first place by given super repair service. Can't you see it? just chant IOR, ZEISS, SWARO, NIKON for 1200 hours and you will SEE THE LIGHT! Brother you can be saved!
"There is still time" (a gold star to the first to i.d. that quote)

-------------
Vagisil Tester


Posted By: Acenturian
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:17

I will agree that both Swaro and Leupold have excellent marketing departments. However, I have to disagree with the comment that the average Joe believes Swarovski is the best binocular and those who know, know different.  I believe the "average Joe" believes the big three makes the best binoculars (Zeiss, Leica and Swarovski) and quite frankly I agree they do.  I tested all of them and I like my Swaro's the best, does that make them the the best? No, I don't think there is a "Best" at that level of performance personal preference is the key. What looks good to one set of eyes will not look as good to the next guy. Hens the reason why all three can charge HUGE amounts of money for their binoculars.

 

Now I do believe that the average Joe may not know of just as nice of optics from brands like Nikon with their Premire Series. But that is because the "average Joe" does not take the time to research or even better go down and put hands on the product before buying it.

 

Do I believe that you pay more for a name? Absolutely.  Go down and buy a binocular strap and because it says Swarovski you will be charged twice as much as one that says Pentax even thought they are the same strap made out of the same material and in all reality made in the same shop.

 

Now i am not a big Leupold fan. Mainly because I really feel that people are over charged for what they get. I mean for the price of a Rifleman scope you can get much better glass in brands like Nikon, Burris/Pentax, Weaver, Sightron and Bushnell.

 

I also was not impress with the Golden Ring Binoculars for the money.  They are nice but I don't feel in the same league as the BIG 3. However, I do feel that Swarovski is priced and competes right there with the others in their price range.  I don't think the EL's are worth the extra money but then again I don't think the high end Leica stuff is either.   But that is personal preference and again both are priced about equal and perform about equal.

 

The one thing to remember with both Leupold and Swarovski a name goes a long ways. While I have never needed warranty work on any scope or binocular both companies are known for taking care of the customer. That is a big plus, to know you have that peice of mind.  Also, I have sold optics off over the years and both Leupold and Swaro are well known and hold their overall value pretty well.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

AC

 

 



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If You're In A Fair Fight, You Didn't Plan It Properly

- Anonymous



Posted By: guitarman
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:19
Haha that is hilarious rootmanslim.  I won't comment though.


Posted By: rootmanslim
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:23
Just a simple question. Can you supply quantitative data from independent optics and destructive testing labs to support your thesis that better scopes are available than the Rifleman for it's typical street price of $180.00? OR is it just another "expert" opinion ? And how many Rifleman do you own? And what rifles have you tested them on? you see where this is going.....

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Vagisil Tester


Posted By: rootmanslim
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:24
GTman you a'int got time to type you gotta be chanting... follow me...IOR, ZEISS, SWARO, NIKON .... one down 1199 to go!

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Vagisil Tester


Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:29

Root,GT you two idiots have wasted enough of our time with worthless posts. Stick to thinking and reading about it

2007 and beyond will go right over your heads like..........



Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:29
Rootmanslim, can you supply quantitative data that a $180 Rifleman is as good as a comparably priced Burris Fullfield II, for example?  Did you send both of them to an independent lab to get tested?  In the absense of an independent lab testing, have you had a chance to look at them side by side at a resolution chart in different lighting conditions?  I have.

ILya


Posted By: guitarman
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:32
With all due respect SVD666, I think you have wasted your own time.  I haven't meant to offend anyone.  What did I say to qualify as an idiot?


Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:33

Check your post history.



Posted By: guitarman
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:34
I think the name "SVD666" speaks for itself.


Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:34
Thank you.


Posted By: guitarman
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:36
I didn't know I wasted your time I guess.  To me, you are already wasting your time by being here, as am I, hence the 1-2 week absence.


Posted By: Acenturian
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:54

Sure I see where it is going.  So what you would like to see is my Ph.D in Optical Physics as well as any works or books I authored and published on the subject and perhaps a photo of the optical lab where I conducted the tests on the Rifleman compared to the others. Would that surfice for stating a personal opinion ? Or we could go with option (B) this is a forum hence the area for posting "personal opinions" and while in the future it may change,  we do have the first ammendment which kind of sort of grands that ablity to speak mind on the topic.

 

As far as my "expert" opinion never claimed to be one but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once How many Rifeman scopes do I own? None at the moment. I had one mounted on a .308 and it was an OK scope.I actually gave it to a for helping me with a project. (Nice guy I know )Another friend has one on a 7mm-08 and my opinion has not changed it is an "ok scope".  Do I think you can do better for the money? Yes, the Nikon Buckmaster and Burris FullField come to mind all three are about the same price and while I am no optics "expert" I do have 20/20 vision, I know water is wet and ice is cold. and the other two seem to be brighter then the Leupold and strange that all my friends (four of them) that were there on a side by side thought the same thing.

 

Look I don't think a person who buys a Leupold product is going to be ill served and that they ought to run out and throw the thing in the garbage. Quite the opposite, they still make a fine product a bit over priced in my opinion for what you get. On the other hand they are American made and they have to pay the American worker so production cost can be a factor. On the other hand Zeiss is able to build the Conquest line here and do it for a very fair price so I believe Leupold should and can lower their prices a bit. But then again why should they? They still have an American shooting public out there that still thinks it's 1963 and Leupold is the only scope worth having on a gun. As long as that "Golen ring Envy" still exists they can still charge more for a scope.

 

Happy Shooting

 

PS

By the way Root I still like ya and we can agree to disagree and if we are ever in the same camp I'd sure like a peek at the 400 H&H.

 

Guitarman: I don't know a thing about guitars (I was never coordinated enough, hell I can't brush my teeth left handed LOL ) on the other hand if I was going to buy a guitar it would only be a Gibson Les Paul.

 

 



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If You're In A Fair Fight, You Didn't Plan It Properly

- Anonymous



Posted By: Obi Wan Kenobi
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 17:56

I'll agree with you on 1 thing.

 

Swarovski has the best marketing department of all bino & scope makers out there.

 

I think they've pretty much gone to nearly every hunting outfitter on television in north America & Africa & gottten them to use their product. Of course I would to if they gave their scopes & binos to me for free to use on television.



Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 18:20
Originally posted by Acenturian Acenturian wrote:

. But then again why should they? They still have an American shooting public out there that still thinks it's 1963 and Leupold is the only scope worth having on a gun. As long as that "Golen ring Envy" still exists they can still charge more for a scope.

 

It all started at Woodstock, NY. That would explain the cryogenic state of mind. Dude......



Posted By: guitarman
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 19:21

Acenturian, Gibson Les Pauls are overpriced for what you get, IMHO.  Just kidding!

 

I like my Nikon, I like Burrises, and I really like Leupolds.  I'm also kind of a smarta$$ sometimes lol.  I don't think that Leupold ALWAYS makes the best scopes in their class, but I think that in some instances they do.  I'm not going to put out any specifics because I don't want to spark a huge debate .  In my opinion though, if I were to spend 1200-1500 bucks on a scope, I probably wouldn't get a Leupold.  However, if I were to spend approximately 500 (which I soon will), then I would be more than willing to get a Leupold.  I really like their VX-III's (personal opinion).



Posted By: rootmanslim
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 22:19
Actually while you were at woodstock i was covering your ass in a nasty place called south east asia.

I'll be looking forward to seeing a copy of that PHD in optics posted here.

As I have said this site is all opinions. I dont have to prove Leupold is better as I have never said that. You "experts", on the other hand are always dumping on them, so the burden of proof is on you.
You best hope you never get in court in a real legal debate as you obviously have no a clue on the rules of evidence or debate.

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Vagisil Tester


Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 23:36

Things I know.

 

1. Most often you get what you pay for,there is often a reason why something is twice as expensive as something else.

 

2. Only US optics in the US makes their own lenses, so each time you buy a leupold you are sending of money to    an asian country.

 

3. People see through an optical system diffrently, they see the coulors diffrently and that is probably why some see better in Zeiss while others see better in Swarovski.

 

4. Just because it's written in a well known book 40 years ago doesent mean it's true. There is a lot of wrong things printed in books, so the best thing is to both read the books and use the items to get an opinion.

 

5. I don't judge peoples huntingskills by their gear, that can in some cases just be used as a way to judge their technical interests. Some people love quality and is prepared to pay for it, some don't care. But the quality of the hunter and the human is detected by other things than gear.

 

6. There are really good hunters around in western europe as well as the rest of the world, even though many of them are using Blasers, krieghoffs and zeiss. And I am not a better hunter than them just because all my current rifles is 40 years plus and of older designs.

 

7. An Alaskan scope while working good for O'Connor don't work at all for the type of night/duskhunting that takes places in big parts of europe.Thus more magnification and objetice size is needed even though he didnt need it.

So conclusion is that different hunting requires different gear.

 

8. Not all brands of scopes delivers decent scopes, even though the general quality of optics is far better than it has been before.

 

9. All factories have mondays and does produce a few items that never should have been sold.

 

10. Mostly "Makers" are just brand names that get their western name printied into an Asian or eastern europe scope. I don't mind them selling asian or eastern europe scopes, but it makes things weird beacuse there is not much value in the name anymore. The name of those are no longer a quality controll.

 

Regards Technika



Posted By: guitarman
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 23:46
Well spoken, technika. 


Posted By: rootmanslim
Date Posted: January/25/2007 at 23:55
Funny,  the big story in Rifle a few months back said the only components from Asia used by Leupold were in the Rifleman Line.

You're right about old books not always being accurate... now take Mein Kampf......

You're right we don't hunt non varmint game at night, don't have beaters to drive the game, don't run down elk (red deer) with dogs and hunting is not the almost exclusive province of the super rich.

When ANYBODY on this site produces a book as valuable as those by the authors I cited, I'll be the first to buy a copy.
40 years does not change the laws of ballistics, how game operates when really wild, required skills or hunting ethics.
The fact that some seem to think they should change is what is sad.
"Boy, get out my Blaser 300 WSM with the 6-24 SWARO, load up the ATV, get out the hounds and we'll go up to the fenced preserve and shoot something tonight."
OH BOY!


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Vagisil Tester


Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 08:28

Originally posted by rootmanslim rootmanslim wrote:

Funny,  the big story in Rifle a few months back said the only components from Asia used by Leupold were in the Rifleman Line.

 

The Leupold folks were at a recent show I attended and I stopped by their booth.  I personally heard one of the Leupold reps say Leupold sources their glass from both Asia and Europe, but when questioned further about where, the reply was "we do not disclose that information."



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Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: pyro6999
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 08:31
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by rootmanslim rootmanslim wrote:

Funny,  the big story in Rifle a few months back said the only components from Asia used by Leupold were in the Rifleman Line.

 

The Leupold folks were at a recent show I attended and I stopped by their booth.  I personally heard one of the Leupold reps say Leupold sources their glass from both Asia and Europe, but when questioned further about where, the reply was "we do not disclose that information."

 

that tells me that if you buy anything less than a vxIII your getting asian glass saving the good stuff for the vxL's



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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"


Posted By: Dogger
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 09:30

Need clarification on the glass question - are we talking about sourcing the glass blanks or the ground lenses?

If ground lenses does that include the coatings?



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God save the Empire!


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 09:34
Yes, all their glass (and coatings) is outsourced from PR firms. Last info was Japan and Korea. Even Zeiss states that they have outsourced glass from Japan.


Posted By: thinkingman
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 11:28

Acenturian wrote:

 

Look I don't think a person who buys a Leupold product is going to be ill served and that they ought to run out and throw the thing in the garbage. Quite the opposite, they still make a fine product a bit over priced in my opinion for what you get. On the other hand they are American made and they have to pay the American worker so production cost can be a factor. On the other hand Zeiss is able to build the Conquest line here and do it for a very fair price so I believe Leupold should and can lower their prices a bit. But then again why should they? They still have an American shooting public out there that still thinks it's 1963 and Leupold is the only scope worth having on a gun. As long as that "Golen ring Envy" still exists they can still charge more for a scope.

 

This is a well written perspective on 'The Great Leupold Controversy'.

There are some really stubborn people who feel a personal affinity for the Leupold name.

I just don't get it.

I do see it in cars, Toyota being the best example.

There are alot of people who justify overpaying for the Toyota name by saying they are superior cars or trucks.

I can tell you that I've owned them all (OK, not all but enough to form an informed opinion) and the Toyota legend is a myth.

An expensive one.

But enough people have been brainwashed to keep the company going.

The stories I love by the defenders are 'when my Leupold (4runner) had a major failure, they took good care of me'

Why would you buy from a company that has had to support their products so much?

I hear very little about the customer service at Burris...or Swaro, ....Or Leica.

Maybe not so many claims for products failing?

Just a thought.

PS....re Toyota, before the flames begin, look at the failure rate of the 3.0l v-6 and the sludge-related failures of the 2.4l I-4.

These are MAJOR issues.

My Toyota has had more new car problems than all of the Jeep, Dodge and VW cars I've owned, combined.



Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 12:00
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by rootmanslim rootmanslim wrote:

Funny,  the big story in Rifle a few months back said the only components from Asia used by Leupold were in the Rifleman Line.

 

The Leupold folks were at a recent show I attended and I stopped by their booth.  I personally heard one of the Leupold reps say Leupold sources their glass from both Asia and Europe, but when questioned further about where, the reply was "we do not disclose that information."

 

that tells me that if you buy anything less than a vxIII your getting asian glass saving the good stuff for the vxL's



I do not know where glass for VX-7 comes from.  All other Leupold glass used in rifle scopes comes from either Japan or Korea.  When I say glass, in this case that means ground, polished and coated lenses.

ILya


Posted By: Acenturian
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 12:10

Interesting point. I had an 1982 Toyota Pickup back in the late 80's and the thing was great..you couldn't kill the thing pretty much bullet proof.  Plus the overall design was pretty good for it's time. Fast forward, I had a newer Toyota pickup and I felt that the overall quality and attention to little details was lost or had somewhat deminished over the years.

 

My wife's family has always been a Nissan family and they had an older small Nissan pickup with 275,000 + on it and it ran like a top.  Now , I love my Titan and while I found other trucks I liked the look of better in the half ton catagory I like some of the design features (power and transmision) of the Titan however, quality is good but I highly doubt that it will go 275,000 like the older truck.

 

Unfortunitly we live in a global economy I know the governement preaches that is such a wonderful thing I won't get into that since this is not a politcal forum. I find it interesting the at Zeiss and some of the others have out sourced their glass to Japan, makes me wonder if sometime in the near future what the point will be to pay for the extra amount of cash over say top Japanese brands.

 

Guitarman: A Les Paul may be over priced but they do look cool:)

 

Root: I will always pay respect to a veteran, my father was in Vietnam in the mid 60's and I was raised with a sense of respect to those who serve so since many Americans forget to say it...thankyou for your service to this great nation.

 

 

In closing I think that there will always be the "Great Leupold Debate". I will never say that they make a poor qulaity product because I don't believe that to be true.  Leupold still makes a fine scope.  Personally, for me optics are very subjective and what looks good to one may not another. What I personally have found with the scopes that Leupold makes is that they don't offer any real advantage (meaning optical clarity, brightness, contrast) over the compition and usually comparing same class to same class scopes they cost more. Like I said before, they do have a great reputation for customer service and they do hold their value.  Other than that I see no reason to spend extra money of the same level of performance or even less performance.

 

Happy Shooting

AC

 



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If You're In A Fair Fight, You Didn't Plan It Properly

- Anonymous



Posted By: SwattedOut
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 13:22

Nothing from nothing,but......you do realize that the Japenese can say, "Our vehicles were primo until we outsourced and opened plants in North America". AND, they would be right.



Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 13:51
That is sad, but true. I look at the quality of American pick-up trucks and then say the Tundra or Titan and I really have to question my loyalty to buy American vs. common sense and durability.


Posted By: rootmanslim
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 14:00
Well Roy bring around your rice rocket pickup and hook it up to my 4 horse slant and we'll take a few 100 mile ride down some wonderful USFS dirt roads in WY from 7-10,000 feet. then we'll call the wrecker. Cummins rules and that's a fact. How many of those rice rockets go 500,000 miles w/o engine work. Heck there is one in the TDR club that has done 1,000,000 miles pulling big boat trailers and never had the head off.

I have written Leupold and posed the Asia glass question. I'll see what they say rather than tits over the back fence rumors.

AND Kosh: I was not the one "overhearing the Leupold rep" as your post states!Apology accepted.

-------------
Vagisil Tester


Posted By: Roy Finn
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 14:05

This was from a member whose father is a Leupold employee:

 

"Here is the low down that my father gave me on the phone.  I didnt have to wait because he ended up calling to see how the dog was doing....I let him know I was doing OK also .

 

Leupold has 2 suppliers for the glass they use in all of their scopes.  Japan and Korea are where the suppliers are located.  He told me that Leupold has attempted to find a US glass supplier, however the quality of the glass is below the quality they are getting from the suppliers overseas.  Every other part of the scopes (all lines), are produced in the US.  Every line of Leupold scope is assembled and packaged in their plant in Beaverton, OR.

 

So in short, Leupold scopes (all lines) are made in the US and all parts (besides glass) are supplied from US companies.  He also told me that having the 2 suppliers of glass has something to do with the different types of coatings used on them.  So I have no idea if they use one type in one line and another type in another line.

 

My opinion, however this is just my opinion, is that they use the better of the 2 glass suppliers for the higher end scopes and the other for the lower end scope.  They could also use one supplier for scopes and the other supplier for the other products they offer.  Either way, I dont think that you can have a lower end product when they offer a lifetime warranty like Leupold does on all of thier products.  Either way, I would use any product line offered from Leupold.

 

Hope this helps!"



Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 14:44

I don't have a problem with that either Leupold or Zeiss is buying glass or other components from Asia.

I just find it hillarius, cause there is someone here that is screaming high about that it's close to antiamerican to buy anyting else than US produced items..........

Noone meantioned and nooone forgotten.............

 

Regards Technika



Posted By: RifleDude
Date Posted: January/26/2007 at 19:16

Originally posted by rootmanslim rootmanslim wrote:

AND Kosh: I was not the one "overhearing the Leupold rep" as your post states!Apology accepted.

 

Slim, look again at Koshkins post.  He attached a quote from me, quoting you, clearly showing that statement came from me.  He owes you no apology.  I stand by the accuracy of what I said.  Leupold has had booths at several shows in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that I attend every year and and they don't hide the fact they get their lenses from suppliers in Asia.  Their reps have told me that personally on at least 2 other occasions.  The only new revelation from the conversation I overheard at the most recent show (Dallas Safari Club show) was that they also get lenses from Europe as well.  What's the big deal?  The majority of all other optics manufacturers do as well.



-------------
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.


Posted By: alex0902957
Date Posted: January/29/2007 at 22:03

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

That is sad, but true. I look at the quality of American pick-up trucks and then say the Tundra or Titan and I really have to question my loyalty to buy American vs. common sense and durability.

 

TUNDRA BUILD IN USA



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LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER!!!


Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 09:59

well, you do get what you pay for most of the time.

 

i have gibson and fender guitars. i also have washburn and epiphone guitars.

i have high end euro scopes too.  but i have tasco, nikon, and simmons scopes too.

it's all relative and independent when you are assessing value vs american/foreign.

 

i am not a huge fan of leupold by any stretch of imagination. 10 years ago, they were the best

that me or my pals had. they were the standard. times have changed. and i think other companies

are leaving leupold in the dust.  is this because it's an 'american made' product, even though the glass comes

from asia? and the price for american labor is exponentially more expensive? probably so.

 

i think it really doesn't matter where the end product comes from when you look at quality.

you can get topnotch optics from asian, european, AND american companies.

 

i would love nothing more than to buy only american products.  i have massive pride for our country and our economy.

truth of the matter is: i can't afford to buy only american goods.  our economy is so screwed and we are totally

dependent of foreign goods/monies. it's sad but true. and we (me included) are frickin spoiled to be able to buy a great

foreign product for half the cost of a simliar american product. and don't get me started on how lazy the american work

force has become.......our children are born and raised with hardly a work ethic to share between them, nowadays. it's sad. 

 

if anyone has an affordable way to buy only american......sign me up.

 

J

 

 



Posted By: ceylonc
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 11:13
Originally posted by jonbravado jonbravado wrote:

well, you do get what you pay for most of the time.

 

i have gibson and fender guitars. i also have washburn and epiphone guitars.

i have high end euro scopes too.  but i have tasco, nikon, and simmons scopes too.

it's all relative and independent when you are assessing value vs american/foreign.

 

i am not a huge fan of leupold by any stretch of imagination. 10 years ago, they were the best

that me or my pals had. they were the standard. times have changed. and i think other companies

are leaving leupold in the dust.  is this because it's an 'american made' product, even though the glass comes

from asia? and the price for american labor is exponentially more expensive? probably so.

 

i think it really doesn't matter where the end product comes from when you look at quality.

you can get topnotch optics from asian, european, AND american companies.

 

i would love nothing more than to buy only american products.  i have massive pride for our country and our economy.

truth of the matter is: i can't afford to buy only american goods.  our economy is so screwed and we are totally

dependent of foreign goods/monies. it's sad but true. and we (me included) are frickin spoiled to be able to buy a great

foreign product for half the cost of a simliar american product. and don't get me started on how lazy the american work

force has become.......our children are born and raised with hardly a work ethic to share between them, nowadays. it's sad. 

 

if anyone has an affordable way to buy only american......sign me up.

 

J

 

 

 

Well said.  I concur. 



Posted By: Trinidad
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 11:29
Very good points Jon,fine post.


Posted By: guitarman87
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 16:23

Actually, depending on imports does not have a negative impact on our economy as a whole (straight from the mouth of my economics professor).  It is advantageous to the consumer.  It does, however, provide a little bit of healthy competition for our domestic companies and factories.  So, IMO, buying from foreign suppliers does not have a negative impact on our country.  It forces companies like Leupold to improve their products even more.  I think that eventually, Leupold will probably resort to foreign production, as they have with some of their other products.  If not, there is almost no way they will be able to live up to the competition.  As jonbrovado stated, our wages in the United States are slightly inflated, and this probably accounts for the relatively high price of Leupolds.

 

In their defense though, I don't think this means that Leupold scopes are overpriced.  In fact, I think you pay very close to what it cost to produce the rifle scope.  However, you are probably paying someone twenty American dollars an hour rather than X dollars (or pesos, or yen etc...) per hour.  But, I must admit that I think Nikon makes an excellent rifle scope, and I believe that I will choose one of the new Monarchs in favor of a VX-III.  I have looked at them side by side, and I can't continue to insist that Leupolds are superior.  I know that they have a superior warranty, but I would rather take the chance that I won't need it for negligence or something else.



Posted By: www.technika.nu
Date Posted: February/06/2007 at 23:36

I do actually think that everyone can afford to buy US made items, or Euro made items as well.

In the past when people bought US made scopes and fine quality rifles was made in the US like winchester, Marlin and Savage, people did not have the money to own full armouries of guns.

They had a few rifles, and very few people could afford to own a scope, binoculars was scarce.

 

Apart from having an armorie of guns, people does also have wide screen TV, good computors, nice cars and power tools that was to expenisve to buy only twenty years ago.

 

So I dont think the economy is so screwed that we are forced to not buy US made stuff, but we have all became materialists and want more and more.

So instead of having one or two centerfire rifles with good scopes, many have 10 with lower grade scopes.

 

And here is problably a small differance to Europe, in many places here are we limited, in Sweden we can maximum own 6 huntingguns including shotguns. That is probably one of the reasons why people have more expensive scopes here.

 

Regards Technika



Posted By: jonbravado
Date Posted: February/07/2007 at 08:02

you make good points, guys.

 

guilty as charged

 

J



Posted By: tahqua
Date Posted: February/11/2007 at 10:24
Originally posted by mwyates mwyates wrote:

1) Leupold makes good scopes; some are overpriced, but nearly all companies make some scopes that are overpriced. 

 

2) Swarovski has a better marketing department than Leupold; The average joe will tell you that Swaro is the best binocular, but those who know, know different.

 

3) The best sign of an inexperienced shooter/hunter is that he is overgunned and overscoped (I think I just made that word up)

 

4) You can get a really good scope from any maker.

 

5) You can get a bad scope from any maker; but you have a better chance at a bad one from the lower tier companies.

 

6) SWFA is a great company to do business with.

 

7) I've been hanging around here for 2 1/2 years.  It was fun at first with a lot of good information.  Now, like a lot of the Internet, there's so much crap that it's not worth the effort to find the good stuff.  I'm going to go read and play my guitar.

 

 

I agree with all but #7 and this post just kept going. I hope Mike is still out there and will chime in again some time.

 

 

 




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