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'scout' scopes on old milsurp rifles |
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Trajan
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Posted: February/29/2008 at 11:24 |
Hi-
I have a few old milsurps that I would like to put scout mounts & scopes on. I would use the s&k 'no gun-smithing' mounts so as not to permanently do anything to the rifles. Rifles in question: mauser 98k, mosin M38 and mosin M44. These rifles were not expensive at all... so I would hesitate to put scopes on them that cost close to $300. I don't know a lot about scopes, but I'm assuming that "pistol" scopes would not have the correct eye relief for a scout-mount setup (I suppose 9" to 12" or whatever). I know that Leupold has a couple FX-2 scout models, Burris may have a couple, and I believe Nikon has one. I was wondering if there are any others, especially cheaper ones, available? I'm mostly interested in doing this due to my old eyes, that can't get the open sights in focus at all. Thanks for any tips. |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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GeoJAP
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/25/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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I have a Weaver LER 4x32 scope on my Finnish M39 Mosin Nagant. It works very well. I used the Darrel's Scout Mount (a forum member at Parralax's Collector's forum) for the Mosin Nagant, and it's a great base.
It's pretty damn accurate for a milsurp, as most Finnish M39s are. I can get 1.5" groups at 100 yards with 50 year old surplus ammo pretty easily. I can take pics of the rifle and post them later today or tomorrow if you like. |
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Trajan
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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GeoJap -pics would be great.
I didn't know weaver made one, thanks for the tip. |
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GeoJAP
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/25/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Just about every manufacturer makes Long Eye Relief or handgun scopes. I chose weaver because it was a decent scope at a very decent price. It was only $150.
Getting a good base is important. I have heard good things about the S&K but have never used one. I used a B-Square base on a 98 Mauser and it worked well. My favorite between the two is the Darrell's model. Last I checked, which was a few months ago, I think he had some in stock for the Mosin. |
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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I used to spend quite a bit of time on the C&R forums, not much lately though. The Darrells bases were discussed regularly, and I NEVER heard a single complaint about them. He is very highly respected for the quality of his work and customer service.
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Trajan
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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I never thought to look at handgun scopes, since I thought the ER would not be correct for a scout set-up on a rifle.
I also know that parallax is set at 50yds on handgun scopes... will that be a problem for shooting rifles at 100 & 200yds? Probably not very much I would guess. I assume Leapers and the like are not recommended here at OT...? Don't forget, we are talking about beat-up old milsurps here, not precision, sub-MOA rifles. I can't find any local dealers who stock scout scopes, so I'm not able to handle them, or look through them and play around with the eye relief. I may check the local dealers for what handgun scopes they stock. |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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GeoJAP
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/25/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Here is my B-Barrel Finn M39 Mosin Nagant. The pics are a little big, so it helps if you have your monitor set to at least 1600x1200 resolution.
http://www.codemonkeyx.com/images/m39_1.jpg http://www.codemonkeyx.com/images/m39_2.jpg I used to have a C&R license so I used to have quite a few C&Rs, having bought quite a few when they were really cheap from 1999-2003 or so. I sold them all except for my Swedish M96 Mausers, M1 Garands and a 1903A3 Springfield. I have put scout scopes on this M39 and a Persian Brno 98/29 Mauser. I used the B-square mount on the Persian Mauser and it seemed to function well, but it sat a little high and wasn't my favorite scout base. Of the two I've tried, I really like this Darrell's mount best. I have been very happy with this Finn M39, Darrell's mount and the Weaver scope. Granted, the Weaver scope is not as high dollar or quality as some other scopes. But in order to keep things in perspective, this rifle only cost me $130 or so. It was an unissued B-Barrel M39 from gunsnammo.com that had a cracked stock, so they were unloading it for like $105 about 6 years ago. I bought a replacement stock for it for $25. It doesn't have much collectors value since it is not the original stock, but it shoots lights out for a milsurp. I could not justify putting a $250+ scope on this rifle, and the Weaver has worked just fine for 100 yard target shooting for almost 6 years now. When I want to do some serious shooting, I'll pull out my FN PBR XP for which I just bought an IOR Valdada 2-5x10-42 tactical scope. I looked it up, and the scope mounted on the M39 is a Weaver Classic Pistol Scope 4x28mm. |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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The new Weaver pistol scopes can work! But double check the eye relief specs first! How much distance from the scopes ocular bell to your eye ball will you have???........The Classic 4x eye relief specs show 12" to 18"..........I don`t think that there is a quick focus eye piece to compensate for lack of FOV on that Weaver!!..........Be careful there!!...........Maybe the older Weavers were different!
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Trajan
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Big Squeeze - yes, I did come across that Nikon in my searching for scout scopes... before I ever posted here. I agree, for the features you get, and it being a "Monarch", it seems to be a great price.
Geo - thanks for the pics, it looks good. I like the scope, since it is just a "plain, black scope" and not all colorful and with fancy writing all over it. I prefer the simple and plain look when on old milsurps. What reticles are good for a scout set-up? No choices for the most part, however, with Leupold I could maybe substitute a diff reticle for an extra $50+. I'm partial to the German #4. I don't like the "heavy" duplex type. |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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Trajan
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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I notice at competitor.com, that they have the option of customizing the Leupold Scouts. I could get any reticle I want. However, at $279 +59 for the reticle change, we are talking about more than I want to spend.
http://www.competitor.net/custom-leupold-25x28mm-m8-ier-scout-rifle-scope.html I'll look into the ones discussed in this thread.. the nikon, the leupolds, and the weavers. I'll probably buy the s&k mount first, for my M38. Have the choice between s&k style rings, or regular rings. Will try the s&k style first I guess, they look good. After I get some experience with a first set-up, I'll know more for the next time. I got my son the M44, and he wants a scout set-up on his too. Then I have the k98. |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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Trajan
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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sorry about the "competitor" thing. I wasn't thinking.
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Trajan
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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hmmm... can't edit my posts.
Anyway, before when I said I liked the german #4, maybe I meant the german #1. My swedish M41B sniper scope has a post on the bottom going up to a point, and two posts coming in from the sides... but no crosshairs. I can shoot way better with that rifle than any other rifle I own. Not really important, I just wanted to clarify. |
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GeoJAP
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/25/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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I've often wanted one of those Swedish M41b's. I know Samco is still shipping them out. What is that woman's name down there, Abda?
How does your rifle it shoot for you? When did you order it from them? That is about the only milsurp I'm still in the market for. I have heard the glass on those Ajax scopes is very nice. I have a couple of nice Swede M96s and over 1000 rounds of Federal 6.5x55 ammo that I can reload the brass once it is fired, so I'm thinking in that direction.... |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Keep in mind that with a lot of scout mounts for milsurp rifles a scout scope like the Leupold or Burris ones might have too short of an eye relief. I have used Darrel's scout mount on a K31 and a couple of Mosin variants and I think your best bet is one of many excellent 2x pistol scopes out there. They tend to have the most flexible eye relief and with old military rifles that is an important advantage, since the rear sight base is in a spot that is a little further from your eye than the base on modern scout rifles.
I recall having good luck with Bushnell Trophy 2x32 scope, Swift 2x20 and a couple of more expensive scopes of similar configuration. ILya |
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Trajan
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Geo- ordered the M41B from Samco Feb. 2007. Took 3 months for it to come to my dealer. Cost $1295... ouch !
However, it is by far my favorite milsurp. I can shoot better with it than with any other of my rifles. The 6.5 caliber is great too. The scope is kind of a pain to adjust, but I finally got it pretty close. thanks koshkin. I'll try to figure out approx eye relief I'll need for my diff rifles, based on where the rear sight is... Yeah, some milsurps have the rear sight fairly far forward, you're right. |
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Trajan
Optics GrassHopper Joined: February/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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edit: My dealer wasn't too happy dealing with samco... Yeah the woman is something with an A... but can't remember. My dealer ended up with the opinion "I'm never ordering from these people again...". Ha ha... but at least I got it finally.
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