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serious question on purchased ammo

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2017 at 07:39
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I purchased two different boxes of ammo from a respected source. They were for trial in my Dakota model 10 chambered in .257 Roberts. One was loaded with 110 gr. Hornady Interbond bullets and the other with 100gr. Swift Scirocco II bullets. Neither will chamber ... when I raise the breechblock it hits the cartridge rim. From what I can determine, the max COAL should be 2.78" (other loaded ammo recently purchased works fine... but not this stuff), but these have a COAL of about 3". What should I do? I have tried contacting the original source, but have not even received a reply (great CS I'd say... not). Can the bullets be pulled and re-seated? Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2017 at 08:12
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Ric, I have a box of Federal Premium 120 gr Nosler Partition and a couple boxes of Hornady Superformance 117 gr SST's that both measure 2 3/4". I don't think Hornady produces the Superformance any longer.

As I said in my PM the Federals are yours if you are interested.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2017 at 21:04
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The first question is does the ammo meet reloading specs for length etc.  If they are factory ammo and they meet the ammo reloading specs the problem may be the machine work done by the rifle manufacturer. I have had rifles that would not chamber ammo made to spec and ammo that was factory new but made wrong.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/19/2017 at 08:38
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The ammo is factory and does not meet the 2.78 number that I found online. I have some factory accubonds that do just fine... as did some others recently tried.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 05:55
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Wow. This site is full of brilliant minds. Wondering why so few responses?! Did I P in somebodies corn flakes?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 06:35
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Yo Ric, do you want the Federals that I offered? 💥💥💥🦌
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 10:12
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Yep. Let me know the shipping amount and I'll send you up a check. Thanks Skip. U da man! I'll PM U my address. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 12:04
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The "respected source" part leads me to believe this isn't factory as we would define it, is that correct?

If I bought factory rounds that were that far out of spec on length, I'd question what else might be wrong with them.

Has the rifle every chambered a round you know to be in spec?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 12:39
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Of-course you can pull the bullets and then re-seat them. You could even bump them lower w/ your seater die if they're not crimped.  If you can find a case guage for 257 Rbt., that might be helpful. The datum point on the cartridges in question might be off. The rim might be out of spec. 
Even though other 'factory' ammo has chambered and fired, perhaps a chamber cast might be in order. Perhaps the leade is a little short ?
All this stuff may be unlikely, but I would consider all of it to be possible. Something is stopping those cartridges.




Edited by hatton mann - March/22/2017 at 12:44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 14:38
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

The "respected source" part leads me to believe this isn't factory as we would define it, is that correct?

If I bought factory rounds that were that far out of spec on length, I'd question what else might be wrong with them.

Has the rifle every chambered a round you know to be in spec?

 
It's definitely factory... I just did not want to specify the vendors name here. They have ignored two e-mail requests... but today I finally got a human on the phone to talk to. They are supposed to be getting back to me. We'll see. If not, I will then release (here) the specifics. 

The rifle has performed well with Nosler Trophy Grade Custom Accubond (110 gr.) ammo purchased at Midway USA.It chambered fine and shot MOA.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 14:43
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Originally posted by hatton mann hatton mann wrote:

Of-course you can pull the bullets and then re-seat them. You could even bump them lower w/ your seater die if they're not crimped.  If you can find a case guage for 257 Rbt., that might be helpful. The datum point on the cartridges in question might be off. The rim might be out of spec. 
Even though other 'factory' ammo has chambered and fired, perhaps a chamber cast might be in order. Perhaps the leade is a little short ?
All this stuff may be unlikely, but I would consider all of it to be possible. Something is stopping those cartridges.


I'm not a reloader and have no equipment to pull and re-seat the bullets. From what I can determine, the trimmed case length is correct (2.223"). The OAL is supposed to be 2.775" (rounded to 2.78") but these are at least .2 long. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 15:31
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If they are .2" = 2/10s", over max. OAL they are pretty long. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 16:28
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If any measurement on ammunition is not to specification I would not alter the shells in any way to force them to fit. There is no telling what is wrong. Worse case would be the shells could be over charged and would blow up in your face. Not good. Loco Several company's have recalled ammunition that was loaded incorrectly in the past few years.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 17:17
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Originally posted by hatton mann hatton mann wrote:

If they are .2" = 2/10s", over max. OAL they are pretty long. 

Yep, they are.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 17:18
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Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

If any measurement on ammunition is not to specification I would not alter the shells in any way to force them to fit. There is no telling what is wrong. Worse case would be the shells could be over charged and would blow up in your face. Not good. Loco Several company's have recalled ammunition that was loaded incorrectly in the past few years.

Very true. I did not try and force them. Still waiting to hear back from them. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2017 at 21:56
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Let me take a guess at this point; 'High Energy' loads ?

If so, I'm wondering if a little too much powder was stuffed into the case and over time pushed the bullet forward. 
Shake the cartridge,,, anything 'shaking' inside ?
I've worked  w/ compressed loads, but you do have to leave some room for the bullet,,Big Grin

Check the ammo company website for recalls.




Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/23/2017 at 07:19
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Will do... thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2017 at 11:46
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So, I "shook" several cartridges... they must be loosely (not tightly) packed because I can hear / feel movement. I'm wondering if a simple bullet re-seating (deeper) may be in order. Still no response back from the company. I'm fixin' to call them back this afternoon. Such an unnecessary PIA. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2017 at 12:08
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Ammo went UPS today Ric. I'll PM you my address.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2017 at 11:27
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Called and got a real person... again. He was clueless, but finally said they would send me a FedEx return label. Maybe progress is forthcoming???!!!Cool
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/26/2017 at 15:48
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Those rounds are just way beyond max SAAMI spec on COAL. At 3" OAL, they wouldn't even function in many bolt action magazines, much less chamber. Don't understand why the mfg would load to that length. Still, if you're using in a single shot rifle where you have no box length constraints, the COAL isn't important; it's the length from case head to ogive datum contacting your chamber throat that determines whether or not you can chamber. A long ogive bullet could technically be way over max COAL and still chamber because the contact point on the ogive would be close to the case mouth due to the long length of ogive profile providing clearance with the bore/throat. This obviously isn't the case with your ammo.

You could technically run the rounds in a bullet seating die and seat the bullets deeper, very easily and quickly. You wouldn't need to pull the bullets. However, I wouldn't do that; I would just ask for a refund and wouldn't buy any more of that ammo. If the COAL is 3", they should recognize their mistake and make things right with you. If they don't, then I wouldn't buy anything from them again anyway. 

If you bought the ammo due to the specific bullets being used, and nobody else loads that bullet, I would just handload ammo with that bullet. If you don't plan to reload, then you still have no shortage of ammo available that will chamber just fine.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/27/2017 at 07:33
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Thanks Ted. Those suckers are heading back! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2017 at 14:05
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UPDATE. All is well now. FWIW, the original company providing the un-usable ammo was Hendershots (I did not want to say until the outcome was certain). I received a nice letter from Lance apologizing and admitting that they were out of spec. I also received two new boxes of ammo that are fine. It's nice that they made it right. They are off my bad list now. LOL.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2017 at 16:35
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Ammo manufacturers tend to take it very seriously when there are problems. Glad they handled it promptly and to your satisfaction. 
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