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Swarovski Z6!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2006 at 20:51
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I am amazed at the expertise and knowledge of optics found on this forum.  I learn something each time I read these threads.  It would take a long time to acquire this much knowledge if one had to do it without the benefit of this forum. 

 

Can anyone talk about the Leupold VX-7?



Edited by OK hunter
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2006 at 21:48
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I don't think anybody's seen a VX-7 yet.  I'm sure they'll be good, but at their price point they are in some rarified air.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2007 at 16:15
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Originally posted by OK hunter OK hunter wrote:

I am amazed at the expertise and knowledge of optics found on this forum.  I learn something each time I read these threads.  It would take a long time to acquire this much knowledge if one had to do it without the benefit of this forum. 

 

Can anyone talk about the Leupold VX-7?

 

There is alot of great info here OK hunter. The VX-7 has not been released yet but it is already showing some typical Leupold tactics on it. Look at its price,tube construction and power options and this should give you a clue on what I predict a future loser.



Edited by SVD666
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 10:38
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Thanks Roy.

 

Any price rumors floating around??

 

Yep!  I heard from a reliable source that the new Swarovski Z6 line was going to carry an MSRP in excess of $1,900!!!  OUCH!!!

 

My source has also looked through one and said that it is a fantastic scope and very close in optical quality to Zeiss VM/V and S&B Zenith.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 15:46
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$2000 !!!!???? I can buy a Kimber 8400 with a Vari X III for that. Dollar devaluation is really showing up as is HYPE.
I'll hunt with my old rifle & scope and go on an outfitted hunt and send a care package to the troops rather than impress the boys with the latest from the euro robbers who are donating a lot of their ill gotten gains to the Mullahs.
What's next "scopes for food to replace oil for food?"
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 02:03
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As a US citizen you should not complain about European polictics in the middle east.

US is activly trying their absolutely best do disstablize the whole world by supporting Israel regardless of how badly they behave and misstreat people. Regardless of what the wests thinks about muslems there is really no reason to jump on their throats as it's only leeds to desperate actions that serves noone.

There is not just ones fault in that conflict but the ways Israel are acting is clear that they were good pupils to "der Fuhrer".

So please clean in front of your own door before you complaint abouth others.............

Enough said about middle east politics, I don't think it has anything to do on this forum, but if you are swinging strong irrelevant opinions around you, you will get them back.

I am not going to discuss politics more in this thread so if someone gets mad and wanna continue, please start a new thread in the OT or send me a private message.

 

When it comes to optics the Z6 is in my opinion the greatest invention to riflescopes in in 85 years.

And quality optics costs.

Some manufacturers like the one you meantion are importing asian glass of inferier quality and putting them togheter in a scope that is of the less optical quality level than scopes was during the 50th.

When Zeiss released their Zielmulti variable riflescope in 1922 it had from the beginning constant eyerelief.

85 years later Leupold has still not managed to produce riflescopes with constant eyerelief wish in turn makes them slow and cumbersome as you never now where to place your head on the stock and it forces you to adjust that placement before you shoot.

 

Quality optics costs, and the pricedifferance betwen the Z6 and the other comparable brands is not very big.

That in mind it's probably one of the most costly scopes to produce as the tolerances has to be keept very close.

The tolerance betwen the  erectortube and the hole where it fits is within 8/1000 mm and mostly machinry that produces the scopes had to be built new as the old machinery not was able to produce this tolerances in massproduction.

 

Of course is the scope expensive, and I am the first to recomend people to buy second hand scopes and rifles as it's the best way to get maximum for the money. But for the ones that can afford the Z6, that scope is a true winner.

I have not yet decided if I am going to spend that money, even though i own maybe 150 binoculars and maybe 30-50 scopes I have only bought 2 scopes new and one binocular.

 

Regards Technika

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 12:42
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Oh God another Swedish supporter of the Mullahs. One question: when they finally outbreed you and take over your country put all your women in Burkas and burn all your churches will you be calling on the horrible imperialistic USA to bail your ass out AGAIN (see WW II if you forget). Yeah I know Hitler left you alone but were we not there by 1950 you'ld all be saying Seig Heil. The Jews said NEVER AGAIN and they mean it. I'm sure when then take out the Iranian bomb plants Sweden and all the euro wimps will stand up in the UN and condem them while secretly thanking the gods for the Jews doing it. If Madrid didn't wake you up to the enemy within... well you'll like kneeling on a pryer rug with your nose in some unwashed Imans butt. I think there are still training camps in Syria and Iran. I'm sure a symathyzer with your expertise in optics would be most welcome.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 13:31
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Rootmanslim

 

I said i am not going to discuss middle east politics in this thread and I mean it.

You can trew as much mud around you as you like I don't care.

Either you keep the optical discussions to optics or I won't respond you'r imputs again.

If you like you start up a threat in "Anyhthing goes" and I will beat you in that discussion or  you just close your foodentrance.

 

Technika

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 13:48
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There is no point in talking to a man whose mind is made up. The socialist agenda taught in your schools, echoed by your press and politicans is all too clear to any observer. Just print out my post and save it for your children or grandchildren (or should I say "child"). Europe is broke, your unemployment and huge social programs will bankrupt your countries within 25 years and the influx of third and fourth world immigration combined with your negative birth rate will destroy your historical heritage. Ask the Persians, ask the Greeks, ask the Romans, ask the English. I imagine the Muslims will commit sucicide by shooting off a nuke in the USA in which case our "boomer" subs will reduce the Mid East to a glass parking lot BUT there's still those pesky Chinese to worry about. And BTW who makes the fighter aircraft that defend your country now? Not SAAB anymore I wager.
Hard to believe it's only been 60 years since Adolf killed himself but you've already forgotten....... see you in anything goes... this will be like a footrace with a one legged man
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 01:45
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Originally posted by www.technika.nu www.technika.nu wrote:

As a US citizen you should not complain about European polictics in the middle east.

US is activly trying their absolutely best do disstablize the whole world by supporting Israel regardless of how badly they behave and misstreat people. Regardless of what the wests thinks about muslems there is really no reason to jump on their throats as it's only leeds to desperate actions that serves noone.

There is not just ones fault in that conflict but the ways Israel are acting is clear that they were good pupils to "der Fuhrer".

So please clean in front of your own door before you complaint abouth others.............

Enough said about middle east politics, I don't think it has anything to do on this forum, but if you are swinging strong irrelevant opinions around you, you will get them back.

I am not going to discuss politics more in this thread so if someone gets mad and wanna continue, please start a new thread in the OT or send me a private message.

 

When it comes to optics the Z6 is in my opinion the greatest invention to riflescopes in in 85 years.

And quality optics costs.

Some manufacturers like the one you meantion are importing asian glass of inferier quality and putting them togheter in a scope that is of the less optical quality level than scopes was during the 50th.

When Zeiss released their Zielmulti variable riflescope in 1922 it had from the beginning constant eyerelief.

85 years later Leupold has still not managed to produce riflescopes with constant eyerelief wish in turn makes them slow and cumbersome as you never now where to place your head on the stock and it forces you to adjust that placement before you shoot.

 

Quality optics costs, and the pricedifferance betwen the Z6 and the other comparable brands is not very big.

That in mind it's probably one of the most costly scopes to produce as the tolerances has to be keept very close.

The tolerance betwen the  erectortube and the hole where it fits is within 8/1000 mm and mostly machinry that produces the scopes had to be built new as the old machinery not was able to produce this tolerances in massproduction.

 

Of course is the scope expensive, and I am the first to recomend people to buy second hand scopes and rifles as it's the best way to get maximum for the money. But for the ones that can afford the Z6, that scope is a true winner.

I have not yet decided if I am going to spend that money, even though i own maybe 150 binoculars and maybe 30-50 scopes I have only bought 2 scopes new and one binocular.

 

Regards Technika

 



I am a Jew. 

You are an antisemitic pig.  You do not know anything about Middle East.  Just like the bulk of Europeans you think the only good Jew is a dead Jew.

That's why Israel exists.  That's why the Jews said NEVER AGAIN.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 08:24
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While you have more optic knowlege/experience then a lot, why doesn't everyone that wants to talk religion/politics take it to private messages/email. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 09:57
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It's dreadfull to see how I get opinions that i don't have and becomes something that I am not.

So for those who wishes to continue here is this thread.

 

 

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5437&PN=1

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 10:20
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Go to "anything goes thread", subthread "history 101".
Our friend from Sweden lays it all out. What is not the Jews fault is ours.Hitler must be dancing in Hell waiting for his skinhead eurotrash offspring to start filling up the the resettlement trains again.That's my last comment on this thread, I'll confine my comments on the subject to "anything goes"
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 11:07
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Back to the Z6...

The Swarovski folks had a booth at the Dallas Safari Club show this weekend and they had all the Z6 models on hand.  Optically, they looked fantastic, as one would expect from any good quality optic inside a well-lit convention center.  They told me the Z6 uses the same glass & "Swarotop" coating as any of their previous scopes, so no change there.  In addition to the 6X erector system, it supposedly provides about 20% additional eye relief and the additional FOV as discussed earlier.  What they mean by 50% greater FOV, incidentally, is when compared to a typical 4X zoom scope topping out at the same power, the equivalent Z6 will have 50% greater FOV on tap on the lower end.  Overall, they appeared to be typical, well-made scopes as you'd expect from Swaro.

 

I personally wouldn't be interested in one of these scopes simply because of the price, which they said would probably be upwards of $1800 retail, however, I can see a viable niche for them, if you're a "one rifle for everything" kind of person.  With one of these scopes, you could use the same rifle for close quarters shooting in the thick stuff, where you need additional FOV, then use the same rig on a wide open, longer range shooting type of scenario.  The disadvantage (besides the price) that I see with these scopes is if you really do more CQ hunting than wide open hunting, this scope would be much larger and bulkier than the scopes you'd typically select for close-in work.

 

Technika,

I'm not going to comment on your anti-US, anti-Israel rant, but I want to clarify something you said about tolerances and the need for special machinery.  I'm a manufacturing engineer and cutting tool designer by profession with quite a bit of machining and machine programming experience.  You mentioned that the size tolerance for critical components in Swaro scopes is "8/1000mm," which is 0.008mm, or 8 microns, which is 0.00031."  While this is a very tight tolerance, assuming you are correct about the tolerances they specify, with modern CNC (computer numeric controlled) machines and diamond tooling, which is what one would use in mass production of aluminum components, this isn't all that difficult to achieve.  I worked in a plant that manufactured residential a/c compressors a few years ago, and we made a bearing that required a bore size tolerance of +/- 0.0025mm that we held all day long, and our cost on that component was about $3.00 U.S.  You didn't specify if this is 0.008mm total tolerance (+/- 0.004mm) or +/- 0.008mm (0.016mm total) but either way, with diamond-tipped reamers and boring tools in aluminum on CNC equipment, this is very achievable on a mass-production basis.  Almost all modern riflescope manufacturers make their components on CNC machines, whether they produce the parts themselves or have outside contractors produce them and tight tolerances are the norm in scope components in order to hold POI zero.  While Swaros are very fine scopes, all scopes require pretty tight tolerances to mechanically function properly as dependable sighting devices.



Edited by RifleDude
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 12:42
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I wonder why Swaro is advertising the Z6 as the world's first 6X zoom riflescopes when IOR has had the 3-18X42 35mm Tactical available well before Swaro came out with the Z6???

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 12:43
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They are advertising it as the worlds first 30MM scope with a 6x erector.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 12:49
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Now that marketing would even make the ad people at Leupold notice.

Edited by tahqua
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 12:49
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Ah, o.k., so it's one of those things where you just have to read the fine print.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 12:52
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Sneaky......
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 14:48
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The differance betwen this 6X zoom and all others i have seen including all 4X zooms is that the others have a considerable tunneleffect at the low magnifications.

THe Z6 does not have any tunneleffect whatsoever and the result of this is a tremendous field of view.

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 16:53
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I agree with that, Technika.  With the brief look I got through the Z6, I was favorably impressed with it from a FOV and overall optical first impression perspective.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 19:14
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The Z6 seems to be priced less than the Swaro PH.  How's that?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2007 at 19:47
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Well its the same glass and they did away with that cheezy shock absorbing eyepiece,I have seeen PH scopes priced much less than the current Z6 models though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 17:23
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Technika,  older European scopes had considerable tunnel vision but the Swaros and Zeiss that I own have very little.  Zeiss pretty much eliminated tunnel vision when they introduced the VM/V line in the late 90's. 

 

I am not the biggest Swaro fan because I own 2 of them and I personally think that Zeiss and S&B are slightly better.  Having said that, I applaud them for making a very interesting innovation.  I would have preferred better glass instead but I like the idea of a 6x erector.  I just don't think that I would pay alot more for it when I could possibly get a little better optics with Zeiss or S&B.  I think the best option would be a 3-18x50.  If it were in a fairly light weight package, it could be the ultimate hunting scope for short or long range.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2007 at 17:29
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One more note that I forgot to mention.  The biggest drawback to this scope is that they are putting the reticle in the second image plane.  I know that Americans prefer it that way but this is very much a drawback to me.  I am going to post a new topic on this subject.
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