OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Rifle Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - SWFA SS 10x -- reticle off-center behavior?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

SWFA SS 10x -- reticle off-center behavior?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: SWFA SS 10x -- reticle off-center behavior?
    Posted: September/06/2021 at 12:31
Hi all. I've had my 10 MOA-Quad, rear parallax scope for several years now, though I probably only have a couple hundred rounds through the gun it's on (a 6.5 Grendel AR). I just noticed something odd about the reticle's behavior as I turn the reticle focus (RF) ring. As I turn the RF, the cross-hair move around in an "off-center" kinda of way. Quite noticeably. No rotation, not cant to the X and Y axes. The whole thing just moves around. 

For example, the little center dot moves in a circle as I rotate the RF. This can't be normal behavior for a scope, can it? I've never noticed it before in any other scope. I cannot picture how it's even possible just from moving the RF lens fore and aft, unless there is something asymmetric about the RF lens. Like maybe it's mounted in place slightly tilted, or had become tilted? 

Thoughts? 
Back to Top
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/06/2021 at 13:09
It's actually worse than I though, now that I have it out in bright sunlight. Something is definitely broken in there. There is debris just inside of the outer lens, the largest piece being maybe 2mm long? moving around freely between the out and next inner lens. And that inner lens has a coating of dust on it. Can't imagine how or when it happened. This scope is on a "precision" rifle, and I tend to baby it. 

I took a nice picture of the situation. Doesn't look like I can post pics on this forum yet though. 

I guess the only thing to do is call SWFA and get an RMA from them. Unfortunately, this particular type of scope is on backorder nowadays. Dernit all. 
Back to Top
Scrumbag View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: October/22/2013
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 3245
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/07/2021 at 03:24
Contact SWFA.

swfa@swfa.com

They are usually pretty helpful.

Good luck.

Scrummy
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
Back to Top
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/07/2021 at 10:44
FWIW,I emailed them yesterday. Andy wrote back this morning saying to box it up and send it to them. Gave me an RMA #. 

Those rear-parallax MOA-Quad SS scopes are on backorder of course. So it might be a while before I get a replacement, sadly. 
Back to Top
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 14805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/07/2021 at 14:41
The 10x may be on back order but the 6X is in stock and it's a great choice. 

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2021 at 11:22
Originally posted by MrGriso MrGriso wrote:

FWIW,I emailed them yesterday. Andy wrote back this morning saying to box it up and send it to them. Gave me an RMA #. 

Those rear-parallax MOA-Quad SS scopes are on backorder of course. So it might be a while before I get a replacement, sadly. 

Did they give you an estimate on when they might be getting these? 

Everything seems to be on backorder these days thanks to COVID supply chain disruptions.  I was able to snag a side focus 10x42 not long ago which I am quite happy about, but it is a mrad version and by now it is backordered too.

I suppose it is a new crazy world we live in...

ILya
Back to Top
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/20/2021 at 10:48
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

The 10x may be on back order but the 6X is in stock and it's a great choice. 
Just got back to looking at my thread here. Thanks for the notice. For my purpose, I am hoping to shoot out to 1000 yds at times. I think that'd be difficult at 6x. At least with this level of glass quality and my eyes. 
Back to Top
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/20/2021 at 11:05
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Did they give you an estimate on when they might be getting these? 

Everything seems to be on backorder these days thanks to COVID supply chain disruptions.  I was able to snag a side focus 10x42 not long ago which I am quite happy about, but it is a mrad version and by now it is backordered too.

I suppose it is a new crazy world we live in...

ILya
I didn't ask him about an expected arrival of the scopes. Wouldn't hurt though, so I will send them a question. I have not returned mine yet because I didn't have a box suitable to ship mine back in. Everything I had was either too big or too small. So finally I deftly reduced the size of a larger box and am able to take it over to the local UPS Store today. 

And I know exactly what you mean about supply chain problems. It's affecting a lot of industries. I've been waiting for a set of Fox shocks for my IH Scout (4x4 SUV) since late June. Back in the 'Before-times' the wait was maybe 4-6 weeks at most for custom shocks to be put together and shipped. The Fox factory told me last week that lead times are now running 6-10 MONTHS. They still have orders from last March they're waiting to fill. 

And my cousin was telling me that many Santa Cruz mountain bikes are on crazy backorder. They don't expect to get some 'current' models available again until 2024. 

Yeah, these are strange times we're living through. 

I'm kind of wondering if at this point, would the SWFA 10x HD scope be worth upgrading to? Maybe I can trade toward it but that is just a guess. Is the glass that much better? From the one review on SWFA's product page, the reviewer said it has noticeably narrower field of view than the standard SS version. Apparently though, the HD version has more generous eye relief and eye box. 

I should probably add that I already own a their 3-9x HD scope, so at least I have an "HD" scope to examine. Basically the same glass? 
Back to Top
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/20/2021 at 16:22
Originally posted by MrGriso MrGriso wrote:

I'm kind of wondering if at this point, would the SWFA 10x HD scope be worth upgrading to? Maybe I can trade toward it but that is just a guess. Is the glass that much better? From the one review on SWFA's product page, the reviewer said it has noticeably narrower field of view than the standard SS version. Apparently though, the HD version has more generous eye relief and eye box. 

I should probably add that I already own a their 3-9x HD scope, so at least I have an "HD" scope to examine. Basically the same glass? 
Update: I stumbled onto this page and it answered my questions pretty well, regarding the HD version of the 10x.

http://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=116

My main reservation about the HD 10x is that I'm no crazy about the reticle. I much prefer the MOA-Quad reticle, with its finer lines and  0.1 MOA center dot, for taking shots at extreme distances. 

Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 22740
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/21/2021 at 14:01
Originally posted by MrGriso MrGriso wrote:

Originally posted by MrGriso MrGriso wrote:

I'm kind of wondering if at this point, would the SWFA 10x HD scope be worth upgrading to? Maybe I can trade toward it but that is just a guess. Is the glass that much better? From the one review on SWFA's product page, the reviewer said it has noticeably narrower field of view than the standard SS version. Apparently though, the HD version has more generous eye relief and eye box. 

I should probably add that I already own a their 3-9x HD scope, so at least I have an "HD" scope to examine. Basically the same glass? 
Update: I stumbled onto this page and it answered my questions pretty well, regarding the HD version of the 10x.

http://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=116

My main reservation about the HD 10x is that I'm no crazy about the reticle. I much prefer the MOA-Quad reticle, with its finer lines and  0.1 MOA center dot, for taking shots at extreme distances. 

I have the 10xHD... use it for 1000yds with no issues.  I actually like the reticle a lot.  Mine is SN 666. 
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/21/2021 at 19:06
Thanks kickboxer. Actually today looking through my SWFA 3-9x HD scope a bit this morning. It has a very similar reticle. Pulled it off a rifle and set it on a tripod in the backyard. Checked out various distant objects at 9x. That included some buildings on the top of a hill over 1100 yds away. I really didn't mind the reticle at all. In fact I was able to hold the x-hair on small object like buckets. I could live with it. And it is easier to see again any background, compared to the very fine lines of the standard 10x scopes. So it's probably better for hunting or military/tactical use. 

How do you like the rear parallax adjustment? Easy to turn? I found I that I do not like the rear adjustment on mine because it's difficult to twist precisely while viewing through the scope. The wrist and fingers angles are just too awkward. So I added a Vortex cat-tail to my 10x parallax ring; it works great. Super easy to fine-tune the focus/parallax. Unfortunately, the HD version's parallax adjustment ring has no 'flat' to it. It's all cone, from what I can see. I don't know how you'd get a cat-tail to stay there. 
Back to Top
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/22/2021 at 09:29
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I actually like the reticle a lot.  Mine is SN 666. 
LOL Just thought, that SN, but a cross-shaped reticle. Is that where you were going? 

Thinking further on the 10x HD idea. Actually the $500 price difference is about the cost of another decent scope. That's a lot of money to shell out for a similar scope with slightly better glass. 

I could instead just get a new classic 10x SS scope under warrantee and buy an Arken 4-16x, which I've been wondering about, for around $500.... if I'm so all fired up to spend that kind of money. 

================

BTW, for anyone else who's interested, I got a reply from Andy on lead time. He said they're hoping to get some scopes in November. This type of scope anyway. 
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 22740
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/22/2021 at 19:27
Originally posted by MrGriso MrGriso wrote:

Thanks kickboxer. Actually today looking through my SWFA 3-9x HD scope a bit this morning. It has a very similar reticle. Pulled it off a rifle and set it on a tripod in the backyard. Checked out various distant objects at 9x. That included some buildings on the top of a hill over 1100 yds away. I really didn't mind the reticle at all. In fact I was able to hold the x-hair on small object like buckets. I could live with it. And it is easier to see again any background, compared to the very fine lines of the standard 10x scopes. So it's probably better for hunting or military/tactical use. 

How do you like the rear parallax adjustment? Easy to turn? I found I that I do not like the rear adjustment on mine because it's difficult to twist precisely while viewing through the scope. The wrist and fingers angles are just too awkward. So I added a Vortex cat-tail to my 10x parallax ring; it works great. Super easy to fine-tune the focus/parallax. Unfortunately, the HD version's parallax adjustment ring has no 'flat' to it. It's all cone, from what I can see. I don't know how you'd get a cat-tail to stay there. 
The parallax adjustment is "stiff", but I've spent some time turning the knob and loosened it up some.  It works as easily as I need.  
I've spent some time with the "regular" 10x... to me, the 10xHD is noticeably both mechanically and optically superior.  Don't get me wrong, the 10x is a great value at the price, but the 10xHD is "worthy".
Right now, it is on my 50BMG... it has been on most of my rifles at one time or another and performed to all expectations on all of them.  
I have a number of really nice scopes that I truly love, Hensoldt, Zeiss Diavari, Swarovski Z6i, Kahles ZF84, March, USOptics, Meopta Meostar... etc.  IF there was a situation where I could only choose one, that I HAD to depend on, no matter what, the SS10xHD would be it.  I've not been especially kind to it... it has never been anything but great.  
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 22740
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/22/2021 at 19:28
Originally posted by MrGriso MrGriso wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I actually like the reticle a lot.  Mine is SN 666. 
LOL Just thought, that SN, but a cross-shaped reticle. Is that where you were going? 

Thinking further on the 10x HD idea. Actually the $500 price difference is about the cost of another decent scope. That's a lot of money to shell out for a similar scope with slightly better glass. 

I could instead just get a new classic 10x SS scope under warrantee and buy an Arken 4-16x, which I've been wondering about, for around $500.... if I'm so all fired up to spend that kind of money. 

================

BTW, for anyone else who's interested, I got a reply from Andy on lead time. He said they're hoping to get some scopes in November. This type of scope anyway. 
"Let he who hath wisdom count the number of the Beast..."
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/23/2021 at 11:45
I always thought that the SWFA reticles are very crucifix like. The dichotomy is amusing for sure. I'm not a religious person myself, but I'm not anti-religion either. 

That's a pretty good endorsement Kickboxer. I imagine it's built the same as my SWFA 3-9x. Clearly it's of similar design. I love to check out a scope like it that also has a parallax adjustment. Or as I call it, a focus adjustment. 

Switching subjects a bit...

I read a review on this board, I think from you, about the Arken SH4. I'm interested in that one and also in their EP4 4-16x.  However, the EP4 seems to be out of stock these days with no projection as to when they might expect a next shipment. I like the EP's better glass of course. And also the slightly lighter weight; don't need an illuminated reticle. 

I do hope they change the reticle a little. I'm not sure why they put all those little dots radiating out of the center. A single dot in the center with four radiating short lines would make more sense to me. Easier to for the eye to pick it up I'll bet. I think that's one common complaint about the EP4s: reticle is a little too hard to see for general field use. And it's definitely a very busy UI. 

But I guess I'd have to look through one of these scopes myself before making a judgement. 








Back to Top
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/23/2021 at 13:15
Sorry about the humungous image above, BTW. I should have looked further for a smaller one. 
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 22740
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/24/2021 at 07:06
Arken has been having supply chain troubles.  I did review the SH4.  The one I got was a very early model and had some manufacturing issues... too little material in the tube.  I found a "sweet spot", mounted the scope successfully, and have had no further issues.  They are certain the issue is corrected.  All other aspects of the SH4 are very good... true value for the price.  
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/26/2021 at 23:33
Originally posted by MrGriso MrGriso wrote:

Originally posted by MrGriso MrGriso wrote:

I'm kind of wondering if at this point, would the SWFA 10x HD scope be worth upgrading to? Maybe I can trade toward it but that is just a guess. Is the glass that much better? From the one review on SWFA's product page, the reviewer said it has noticeably narrower field of view than the standard SS version. Apparently though, the HD version has more generous eye relief and eye box. 

I should probably add that I already own a their 3-9x HD scope, so at least I have an "HD" scope to examine. Basically the same glass? 
Update: I stumbled onto this page and it answered my questions pretty well, regarding the HD version of the 10x.

http://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=116

My main reservation about the HD 10x is that I'm no crazy about the reticle. I much prefer the MOA-Quad reticle, with its finer lines and  0.1 MOA center dot, for taking shots at extreme distances. 


I should fix some of the photo links in that article.  For what it's worth, it has been about eight years since I've written that article and I still have that 10x42HD.  I also have two 3-9x42 SS HD scopes and for hunting I would lean toward those.

ILya
Back to Top
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2021 at 17:21
Thanks Ilya. I do like the feel and the view through my 3-9x SS HD. It's a keeper for sure. I have it mounted on an upper with a GMR med profile 18" stainless barrel. It's sorta my "SPR" in .223 Wilde. 

Hopefully SWFA will get their shipment in November as scheduled. I'd heard that the supply issue everyone's having is due largely to the bottleneck at Long Beach/LA Harbor. Seems there's a shortage of trucks and, just as importantly, truck drivers these days. 

https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/cargo-ship-holiday-shopping/

I've very curious now to have a look at one of the Arkens, to put on a new build I'm starting. I think I'd want one of their 4-16x models. The 6-24x types, I dunno. I'm not sure that, for the price, the glass will be what I'd want at >20x. And I think 16x is strong enough to get the job done. Since these are FFP scopes, I'd rather use 16x as a scope's max and get the largest view of the reticle rather than "crank it down" to 16x and view a smaller reticle. As said above somewhere, this is pure speculation on my part though. I'll need to have a look through one in order to make that judgement. 


Back to Top
MrGriso View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/19/2016
Location: SoCal
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrGriso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2021 at 19:04
And... I'm starting to cast a wider net and look at some Athlons as well. 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.098 seconds.