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New Varmint Rifle

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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Varmint Rifle
    Posted: March/20/2008 at 17:01
Well guys, I am looking at getting a new varmint rifle.  22-250 or 223.  I really like the 22-250 and am leaning in that direction.  I really like the looks of the Howa M1500 Axiom and the CZ 550 Varmint Laminated.  I am leaning towards the CZ because I can find it.  I have yet to find a place that has the Axions.  What do you guys think?  Which caliber, and what brand?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 18:10
.204 ruger  cooper,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OLRVRAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 18:33
I agree with Dale 100 % on that one. I have one in 22-250 and i kinda wish i would have got it in 204.
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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 18:44
I would prefer the heavy bullets in the 223 or 22-250 for longer range stuff.
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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 18:46
I would love a cooper, but I don't think I could afford that right now.
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 20:55

the heavier bullets don't perform any better until you get above 65 grs, then I doubt if the twist you get will stabilize them.

the 220 swift and 22-250 are no longer range than the 204 a common misconception

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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 21:00

What would the advantages of the 204 be?

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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 21:19
same ballistics, with 10 gr less powder, less barrel wear,
the current fad for the last 10-15 years, with the advent of the vmax type bullets is to use 40 grs. in 22.-250 at swift velocities, which duplicates a rather easy going load in a 204.
one of the best bullets for 220 swifts and 22-250, as most old timers know, is the sierra 55 gr spbt. the bc. almost approaches .3 which is high for 22's and in a swift it is pretty easy to hit 3900,fps, but one pays the dues, the muzzle blast is heavy.
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 21:24
if you want to go the heavy route you need a faster twist, to stabilze. Win, 223, monarch, 69 grs. at 3100-3200 fps, (yea believe it)
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Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 21:27
the cz is difficult to scope, their are a few 30mm rings, but even those and the 1 inch are too high for good cheek weld,. The bolt is too thick and hits the rear scope which necessitates thinning. to get the scope lower. One of the best buys is the remingtion laminated stock varmit series in either of these calibers if the cooper is in the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 21:38

 I don't know anything about the .204. but if I got .22-250, it would be for long shots, with a custom 26-28 inch barrel with a twist fast enough to run 69-80 grain bullets. (1-7 twist?)

 Not really an everyday prairie dog gun, just something for coyotes or crows way out there...
 
 Edited to compliment Dale on his great looking rifles!
 


Edited by RONK - March/20/2008 at 21:40
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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 22:05
Very nice looking rifle Dale.  I was looking at using the 55 grain vmax.  Sure what twist that takes.  Seems most 22-250s have a 1:14 twist.  I am looking for something that can knock down coyotes at good range without the recoil or the damage of my 300 win or 270.  I would also like a 26" heavy barrel.
 
This is the cz I have been looking at.  http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 22:09
Get a .223 with a 1-9 twist.  You will be able to shoot up to 70 grainer's with no problems
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 22:11
Cooper, enough said...
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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 22:13
$$$$ Shocked
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RONK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RONK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/20/2008 at 23:04
 I dunno, guys.
 I have  a .223 with a 1-9 twist and it does shoot 75 BTHPs very well, (but not 75 AMAXs or 80 anything.)
 I think a 1-7 twist 22-250 would shade it any day for coyotes way ,way off.
 Think 90 grain JLKs...(?)
 Just speculatin' though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2008 at 00:32
Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 I think a 1-7 twist 22-250 would shade it any day for coyotes way ,way off.
 Think 90 grain JLKs...(?)
 Just speculatin' though.


Ahh, that would be the ultimate .22 caliber. 
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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2008 at 00:52

I don't need anything bigger than 50-60 grains for what I want.  If I want to go to 90 I will just go to a 100 in my 270, or buy a 6mm.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2008 at 08:38
most 22-250 are 1/12 which will work for 55 grs, but the  ballistic profile is no better than a 40 from a 204.
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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2008 at 11:47
what about the cost of ammo and the availability of it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2008 at 15:12
Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

what about the cost of ammo and the availability of it?
 
.204 ammo is only slightly less available than .22-250, but most well equipped gun stores have it.  The cost of .204 ammo is no more than .22-250 either.  I have found the few .204's, including the one I own in a Sako 75 Varmint, to be superbly accurate.  I've used my .204 with 39 gr. SBK bullets side by side with my buddy's .22-250 using 55 gr. SBK bullets shooting prairie dogs, and I can tell you that the .204 is just as flat shooting and just as good in the wind as the .22-250.  My .204 is quite a bit more accurate than his .22-250, though, and his rifle is no slouch.
 
I haven't used the .204 on coyotes yet, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work well.  A 39 gr. .20 caliber bullet has similar SD to a 50 gr. .224 bullet, less SD than the 55 grainer.  But, it has higher BC than either, so it would be less susceptible to wind deflection, and it would be traveling at higher velocity out of the .204 than it would out of the .22-250 with 55 gr. bullets.  Plus, as Dale said, it is more efficient, because it does all this with much less powder consumption.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2008 at 15:19
BTW, since you ruled out Cooper (which would be my choice as well), I would recommend either the new Savage M12 Long Range Precision varminter, with the right bolt, left port configuration, or the Remington M700 VTR, LV SF, VLS, or SPS Varmint, all of which are offered in those 2 calibers.
Ted


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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2008 at 19:38
Went down to a couple gun shops today and looked at a few rifles.  The one that impressed me the most was the Remington 700 VSF in the 22-250.  The action was so smooth compared to the other, plus the hs precision stock on it really cuts down the weight.  8 and 1/2 lbs vs 9.5 to 10.5 lbs.  I am really leaning towards that rifle now.  The 204 looks really nice too, but I just like the idea of being able to throw bigger bullets.  Some because I am considering using it on wolfs when they open the season in Montana.  I know guys that use them on antelope as well.  Thanks for the good advice so far, keep it coming.  Thunbs%20Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OLRVRAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2008 at 21:26
  Browning a bolt varmit stalker. I've had 22-250's in both browning & remington vssf. Both shot real well, i like the stock on the browning better for packing around feels more like a sporter with the heavy barrel. I still have 4 22-250's, 2 rugers, a sako forester & a cooper phoenix.
 I have 204's in the varmit stalker and a savage.
 Two 220 swifts, rugers.  Remington in 222 & 223.
 But to be honest if i could only have one, it would be a 22-250 !
 Good luck and get the one you like the best, they all shoot!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mwyates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/21/2008 at 22:06
I'm not sure they're available yet, but check out the new Savage Model 25.  It's a small action designed for the 223/204.  Looks like a nice rig in several configurations and the price is right.   I want one
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