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17 hmr accuracy problems

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medic52 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote medic52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 17 hmr accuracy problems
    Posted: January/30/2010 at 19:50
Nice gun and scope it should serve you well, but I too have to say that fouling is not the issue. I have two of the HMR's andHAVE never had an issue with the Hornady ammo.....I think your upgrade of scope will help alot.....
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." G.K. Chesterton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stork23raz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2010 at 14:29

I think figured out what is was. It was fouling, HORRIBLE fouling. Thats why the first shot was always dead on. I was using some hornady vmax. It was the only thing any store had in stock for about 6 months. I got some CCI , they always burn cleaner. I picked up a box of 17gr tnt. I went to the range fire about 50 rounds thru it. It was still cleaner than firing 3 or 4 of the Hornady.  I ordered some CCIvmax and gamepoints, I expect them to group better.  I also decied since the gun is shooting one inch groups w/ the tnt, and my 22 had a horrible cheap scope on it. Why not upgrade. So I moved the Burris Timberline 4.5-14x32 to my Savage 22. Picked myself up and Nikon 6-18x40mm with sidefocus and slaped it on my 17. Hopefully I will get to go zero them soon. I really hope that the CCI vmax or game poitns will bring my groups down some. Updates will follow

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tjtjwdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 23:22

If you can, try different brands of ammo.  As John Barsness pointed out, the curse of the rim fire's is you have to try out different ammo and when you find one that works, by as much of that lot as you can.

Also, as John pointed out, while the 17 HMR is a very zippy round, it is very susceptable to wind, even just a little.

Regarding the fouling, just shoot it some, most firearms after several rounds down the tube start to shoot better.  If your haveing trouble getting the copper out, use some strong cleaners like Sweets 7.62 and some JB bore past.  Between those two, the copper is usually removed.

As far as a 204 Ruger, thats a nice round too. 

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John Barsness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 21:02
stork,
 
Fouling is not going to cause the rifle to shot tiny groups at 75 yards and then scatter them at 100.
 
.17 HMR's do need to be cleaned like centerfire rifles, and different barrels do vary in how much fouling they accumulate. But the symptoms you describe do not sound like a fouling problem.
 
.17 HMR's are affected by wind even more than most cartridges--and the effect will be more at longer ranges. If the wind came up just a little between your shooting at 75 and 100 yards that would also be a factor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 20:55
hotshot,
 
What you are seeing is simply the differences between different lots of ammo--plsu the difference between hollow-points and plastic-tips. This is common with ALL kinds of rimfire ammo, believe me.
 
20 years ago I tried some of the latest "hyper-velocity" .22 ammo in one of my rifles and was getting super accuracy. Went back the next year and bought the same brand and it wouldn't shoot half as well as the previous stuff. Since then if I find a really good batch of rimfire I buy a big bunch--and quickly, before the next lot comes out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danjojoUSMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 14:47
Trade in for a .204 and just reload to keep prices close to the 17 Big Smile 
 
Seriously though, you never hear anything but very positive feedback on the 204, only thing I would get under a .243
 
"When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be"



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stork23raz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/19/2009 at 06:28

There is not parallax problem. The first shoot always goes where its intended which makes me think of fouling or ammo.

The rifle has less than 100 rounds thru it.  I have done nothing to the rifle but buy it, put rings and scope.

I maintain and clean my firearms very well. The crown looks fine. I have been shooting the 17grain hornday vmax.

One of my friends knows a gunsmith, he told him my problem and said the same as Originalbigbuck. He said hes known of it and it tends to be a fouling problem with copper laying in the groves and essentailly making the bore smooth. The gunsmith said you have to clean after 10 shots. Although with my rifle you only really get 1-2 accurate shots after that they just drift away.
I prob wont be able to get any ammo for it right now. I gotta tighten my belt to get money saved up for xmas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tjtjwdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2009 at 22:15
Is this rifle bedded?
 
How many rounds have been fired through it?  It's difficult to believe your barrel becomes coppor fouled after 10 shots. 
 
How does the crown look?  Make sure you clean from the breech and use a bore guide.
 
I have two heavy barrel Savages (one like yours and one with a heavy barrel with a standard/typical laminate stock).  Both shoot godd but one of them definitly needed some work to get it to shoot.
 
Regarding ammo, both of mine prefer Federal TNT, followed by CCI TNT and then Hornady VMAX (all 17 grains).  The Federal and CCI with the plastic tips didn't do to good.
 
HTH,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2009 at 14:46
Originally posted by John Barsness John Barsness wrote:

CI does make all ammo for the .17 HMR. The only difference would be different lots, but I have gotten very good 100-yard accuracy with the .17.
 
One possibility is that the scope's AO is slightly loose when set at 100 yards. Have you tried a different scope?
 
Ive heard this before, however find it interesting.  My Marlin 17 seems to like the 17grn CCI hollow points slightly better than the balistic tips (also 17grn)  I was given a box of federal 17grn ballistic tips by a friend, and my gun shoots about 2" higher with the federal than the CCI Loco
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/18/2009 at 07:57
I sure would like to hear an update on this!
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stork23raz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2009 at 21:47
Well if its that simple. It sucks that it does that but it means that it could be easily corrected. Sounds like you cant do alot of bench shooting, but still you can at least do some hunting with it. I will try that and see. That could be very well the answer I am looking for. I dunno when I will get to take it out and shoot it again. The weather here has just been miserable as of late. I hope its that simple. Means the gun isnt worthless. Good luck, hope your 17 will work fine and shoot excellent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote originalbigbuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2009 at 21:04
I've got the same gun. It drifts after just 10 rounds at just 45 yards. It's not the scope. The issue lies within the barrel as this is what I was told by a gunsmith. He says that the high speed and soft copper of this bullet lays down a layer of copper within the rifling grooves after just 10 shots. You have to clean the barrel with some of the foam cleaner that takes out copper and lead deposits from the rifling grooves. I did use the foam cleaner on the barrel but didn't have a jag small enough to push through the tiny bore so I just ran some patches through it for now to clean out the foam and ran a patch of oil through it because some of these foam cleaners have water in them. I  haven't shot it yet as I'm going to take back the cleaning kit this gunsmith sold me that contains a .17 cal rod but no jag that fits it. Out of the 20 rounds I shot out of the gun, 2 of the cases had a vertical split across the shoulder and the gunsmith told me that it could be caused by the excessive copper deposits laid out by this bullet in the barrel.
GOD BLESS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hawkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 19:50
Originally posted by stork23raz stork23raz wrote:

Scott county. i live about 60 miles or so north of knoxville. 
So you live on one side and me on the other.Shocked
I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stork23raz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 19:45
Scott county. i live about 60 miles or so north of knoxville. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hawkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 19:35
By the way. What part of Tennessee do you live in. I'm in Martin, not to far from Jackson Tn.
I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hawkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 19:20
Put the rifle on the sand bags and point it at your target, try and put the cross hairs or whatever you have on something small. Now without touching you gun or leaning on your table look threw the scope and move your head around. Cross hairs sould stay if there is no sign of paralax. You want find it buy holding the rifle. Just bag it and look threw the scope.
I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stork23raz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 19:16
well the image very bright clear crisp. I can bob my head around without seeing the crosshairs move. Thats all I know. Parallax, I dont know much about I just understand that it is some type of optical illusion/distortion at a specific distance. And without proper correction it can really screw up a shot.  No I havent tried different scopes. I have shot a few shots beyond 100 yards it did the same thing. Not too far beyond.. 110-115. So how would i check to make sure the parallax is correct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Barsness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 19:09
CI does make all ammo for the .17 HMR. The only difference would be different lots, but I have gotten very good 100-yard accuracy with the .17.
 
One possibility is that the scope's AO is slightly loose when set at 100 yards. Have you tried a different scope?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hawkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 19:09
Originally posted by stork23raz stork23raz wrote:

Both are new. It has AO and I really dont think its a parallax problem 
You do know how to check for paralax right? Not trying to insult you or anything like that. The reason  I say check for paralax is the further the target the harder it is to hold a group.
I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stork23raz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/05/2009 at 18:46
Both are new. It has AO and I really dont think its a parallax problem 
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