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Western hunters (elk & Mule Deer) |
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brandon327
Optics GrassHopper Joined: October/25/2007 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: November/05/2007 at 11:03 |
What is the average shot distance? I am looking at buying a new scope and i am trying to decide if i need to get a Long Range Duplex or regular duplex. I am planning a trip out west and i want to be prepared. The average shot at home is probally 100 to 200 yards. We have some that are about 500 but i would rarely take those unless it was a huge buck. I am just afraid that if i get the LR Duplex that all those lines may get confusing on a quick shot and cause a miss.
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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Some shots are gonna be requisite of the LR, I would suggest this reticle, and zero for 250-300 yrds. That should help eliminate some of your guess work, then practice at varying distances to shore up operator err.
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An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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brandon327
Optics GrassHopper Joined: October/25/2007 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Are you suggesting Long Range Duplex recticle or the regular Duplex Recticle?
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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I'd get the LR. for that type of hunting, it will help. Some people are fine with the duplex, and adjust the elev, or can comp in other ways, knowing at what range the thick post is on the kill, etc.
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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other
An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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brandon327
Optics GrassHopper Joined: October/25/2007 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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The average shot distance is relevant when choosing a reticle. Because at longer distance it could elimnate the some of the error in trying to calculate holdover. For example if the avergae shot is 200 yards there is not need for a LR duplex recticle.
I am not implying that it is ok to risk wouding a buck. I would never take a shot unless i was comfortable with it. And by the way we only shoot trophy bucks not average and why would anyone no matter how much of a crack shot they are take a doe at that far.
By the way for all you know i could be a crack shot at 500 or 600 yards.
Just curious what is cutting blood trails? Edited by brandon327 |
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Acenturian
Optics Journeyman Joined: September/07/2004 Status: Offline Points: 543 |
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Lets see the last couple shots that come to mind have been around 250 and in based on friends and family that have hunted mule deer and elk this past year.
As far as this topic straying a bit off with ethical shots. Well maybe its the bow hunter in me but I believe that anything over 300 yards is (a) very difficult for the average shooter and (b) more sniping then hunting. I like the idea of "hunting" and by that I mean seening something and starting a stalk get as close as you can then take the shot.
Just my 2 cents
AC |
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If You're In A Fair Fight, You Didn't Plan It Properly
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: December/02/2006 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 5620 |
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Not really sure where to start on this. 300 yards in wy or mt is not considered a long shot. it is more considered to be an average shot, especially on antelope, elk, and the bigger smarter bucks. to answer you range question, brandon, is rather hard, because it depends on the game, but i would say from my guiding experience with deer and elk, 200 - 300 yards is going to be average. especially later in the year after the animals are a little more jumpy. as for humidity, it won't make enough different in your bullets flight to worry about, and it won't make the animal look that much different. at least not at typical ranges you will be shooting. ok, now i will agree with broadfoot on the 500 yard shots. i think there are plenty of people that can do them if they have the time and right equipment. i would not recommend those shots on elk. if you use a regular plex reticle zeroed at 300 yards, you can shoot out to 400 yards. if you want to shoot farther than 400, the consider a BDC reticle. hope that helps you out. |
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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Two years ago I had a nice Buck in my sights. He was about 300 yds away..... I didn't have a range finder but he was on the quarter mile fence line and I estimated I was @100 yds from the other end fence line. I had a set of shooting sticks, so had a decent rest. I was using my BAR 30-06 with a 3.5-10X50 Grand Slam. I passed on the deer because I did not feel I could hold my rifle steady enough.
If I were looking at an Elk or something of that size.... I probably would have made a different choice, but I'm not sure. I watch alot of the "Outdoor Channel" and see hunters take long shots. It seems to me that a high percentage of those kills, the deer drops in their tracks.... which indicates to me they hit the spine. This leads me to believe they didn't really hit where they were aiming and lucked out so to speak.
For me personaly....... I just can't see taking a shot farther than 300 yds on a Whitetail. |
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take em!
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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Again, Brandon, I apologize for jumping down your throat, please don't take it personally, but it's been a lifelong persuit of mine to help instill in others a sense of what ethical hunting really entails, and what it does not. I was trying to take the opportunity to have you step back and realize what you were asking and what it really means to shoot at game animals at 500 yards, and how few truly legitimate reasons there are to do so, in most cases. In your opening post, you mention wanting to be prepared for your western hunt, and that is certainly commendable in and of itself. You are correct, for all I know you could be a crack shot at 500 or 600 yards. To answer your question, "cutting a blood trail" is simply a local term for coming across the trail of a wounded animal while hunting, or otherwise moving through the woods.
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jackG
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 141 |
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Rather than an average or "typical" shot range, I found myself gearing up for the extreme. I hunt east MT which is open country. I use a 3-9X42 and generally use it cranked all the way up. Over the last two seasons, filling a total of 9 tags, the longest shots were 230 yards and 322, both for pronghorn. The longest shots on deer have been 200 yards. Mule deer and white tails tend to be in the coulies or hanging around on the edges which obviates the need for long open field shots on them.
Last year 230 yards seemed like a long shot to me. I swapped out a 7mm-08 for a 270 WSM for this year's hunt. Two hundred yards seems almost point blank with this rifle and cartridge. The range of shot distances over the last two years is, from around 80, to the afformentioned 322. I set around 335 yards as my limit. That limit is based on MPBR for this set up using an 8 inch circle as the kill zone. I can aim at it without adjustment and be assured the bullet will land inside that zone out to that range. Provided I do my part, of course. |
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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JackG....what were the weather conditions when you did your MPBR test? Was there any wind? It sounds like a pretty decent test!
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take em!
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jackG
Optics Apprentice Joined: November/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 141 |
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I worked it out theoretically. See my post on Trajectory. The guys on here provided a lot of very useful information.
The practical test was a pronghorn at about 322 yards. The angle was slightly up slope. The animal was standing broadside. I had a solid rest and held right on the midline with no correction for elevation. The bullet stuck about 2" below the midline. I also made shots with the same set up at just over 100 yards with the bullet striking a couple of inches above the midline.
I had one clean miss at a shorter range. Dolphin suggested I simply tanked it, and I agree. The followup shot was a clean kill.
There is software to work out the MPBR. It is is a function of BC, MV, bullet mass and diameter, kill zone diameter which is based on the size of the target animal, and a lot of other stuff. You plug all that in and it tells you the max range at which the bullet will strike in that kill zone.
Once you've cranked out an answer, then go a range and try it. The concern I had was, I am sighted about 3" high at 100 yards. That provides the MPBR of about 335 yards or so. But at perhaps 125 yards, I shot cleanly over a mule deer. A couple of other shots at that range had hit solidly in the higher chest, but this one never touched the animal. That suggests I simply blew it on that one. That's what my angst was about and prompted the post on trajectory.
Anyway, that approach worked very well for me with the exception of the afformentioned shot. I'll go to the range and do some more testing. This time at around 300 yards and see what it's doing. Also, I do the testing when it's calm and I've got a rock solid rest. I want to learn about the load at than point and not about the the shooter. That would be me. Once I know what the rifle and cartridge will do, then I work on me. |
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30-06 forever
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/07/2007 Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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A modern cartridge like a 270 or 30-06 works out very well with the 3" high at 100. Should allow hits out to 300
with no difficulty and no complex multi line scopes. Shoot at 100, 200, 300 & 400 so you are sure where your shot will land and that you and your gun have the accuracy for each range. If you shoot several 100 rounds before beginning the hunt you will have the confidence when the "big one" walks out. Best of luck! |
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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Well said and welcome to O.T. |
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Skunk
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/05/2007 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 323 |
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Forever There nothing is too complicated with as you say multiline scopes, use lowest line for farthest target, see no problem for me why complicated for you? you shoot 30-06 for deer at 300 yrds? shame you should be of self, 300 maybe good when sight right. Ciao
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Let me give you my two scents worth
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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UH OH!!!!!!...... Mr. "Skunk" is out of the cage again!.........Tell us sir! What exactly do you shoot? Rifle? Caliber? Scope? What game have you successfully killed?...........Tell us more about yourself!! Over here in America the correct spelling for scents is cents! Remove the "s"!!!!!!! With that spelling your 2 cents worth, is worth 0 cents!
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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Anybody know the height of a skunk? I need to plug that particular value it into my ballistics/trajectory program as one of the parameters...8 inches sound about right? |
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30-06 forever
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/07/2007 Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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We don't waste bullets on skunks, they are too easy to hit with a truck. Crows have to eat too.
Wonder what he hunts in France? Pepe la Phew? Guess he forgot all OUR soldiers that saved France's ass TWICE shooting the good old 30-06. A Federal premium with the 150 accubond when sighted in at 200 is a whole 7" low at 300, only a frog could not make that shot! |
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cyborg
Optics God Gaseous Clay Joined: August/24/2007 Location: North Georgia Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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Pepe's been laying low today, Let's not provoke him. Yeah but we owed them from the Rev War, score's even now. I'm Curious if ol Le Pew shoots a 270 |
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With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other
An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects. OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause. Cyborg |
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