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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2012 at 23:55
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

If you consider the recoil energy of a .270 WIN, and the .257 Wby has less in equal weight rifles, it is indeed brutal.


He had use something else. Both his 257 and 300 wby mark v's kicked like mules and fairly close to each other in recoil.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:06
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I don't believe that for a minute as I have shot both quite a bit in Mark V's. In fact I have shot Mark V's in .240, .340, .378 and .460. The Mark V is a heavy gun and in the lighter calibers, with the Weatherby Mark V stock, is very easy on the shoulder.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:08
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Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

One if you are using Berger VLD bullets then why did you list the Hornady website???

Two I looked on the Berger website and they do not list a VLD bullet for the .204 cal.



You are the one that said "Are bullets that fragment considered soft point or expanding bullets?"
It is basically the same type of bullet --- releasing all energy into the animal.


Really??? I do not think so!

What about why did you list the Hornady website when you are using Berger VLD bullets that are not even listed for a .204???
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:16
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Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

You are the one that said "Are bullets that fragment considered soft point or expanding bullets?"
It is basically the same type of bullet --- releasing all energy into the animal.
 
What does releasing all energy into the animal amount to if the bullet blows up and doesn't penetrate to the vitals?
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:41
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

You are the one that said "Are bullets that fragment considered soft point or expanding bullets?"
It is basically the same type of bullet --- releasing all energy into the animal.
 
What does releasing all energy into the animal amount to if the bullet blows up and doesn't penetrate to the vitals?


There seems to be two schools of thought on this from what I can see. Berger/hornady  is advertizing if the bullet fragments before going all the way through the animal therefore releasing all energy in the animal. Other manufactures like nosler/barnes bullets advertize weight retention all the way through the animal.
I personally use barnes tipped TSX's and the work fine for me.

I guess... six to half dozen to the other??


Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:45
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I hunt with the V-max 50 gr in my 22-250 for varmints.  I would not use them on deer unless it was my last option, and the deer was well with in 100 yards.  Preferably 50.  And if I was going to shoot a deer with a 22-250 (which people do), I would use a 75+ gr regular bullets, not a V-max.  Just my personal preference.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:55
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

I hunt with the V-max 50 gr in my 22-250 for varmints.  I would not use them on deer unless it was my last option, and the deer was well with in 100 yards.  Preferably 50.  And if I was going to shoot a deer with a 22-250 (which people do), I would use a 75+ gr regular bullets, not a V-max.  Just my personal preference.


The barnes bullets I use have worked great for me and do go all the way through on every deer I have shot with them. The v-max my dad has been using did not go all the way through on his buck and two doe mule deer could not find an exit hole but, worked just fine.
His deer were every bit as dead as mine.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 08:02
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im just gonna shake my head in disgust and walk away from this train wreck. a .204 on deer really?? come on south dakota what are you thinking with your 1000 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle??Loco
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 08:03
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

I don't believe that for a minute as I have shot both quite a bit in Mark V's. In fact I have shot Mark V's in .240, .340, .378 and .460. The Mark V is a heavy gun and in the lighter calibers, with the Weatherby Mark V stock, is very easy on the shoulder.

my .300wby doesnt kick at all, i like  love that rifle. i would be a little more leery of the .460 but i would sure like to try a .340.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 08:41
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I guesss the whole "fair chase" ethical argument only applies to super light-weight equipment...Where as my 300 wsm has over 1000lbs of energy all the way to 1000yards... Just saying...
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 08:43
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I have and shot a .204 with 40 grain bullets on a regular basis. Also about 7 or 8 years ago when my father and I used to hunt quite a bit more, the rifles we took out on a regular basis were the .240 Wby mag and the .257 wby mag. The .257 is no where in the ballpark of kicking like a mule. Back to the .204, could you shoot a deer with it? Probably if it was a small white tail and you shot it in the neck inside of 100 yards. If I am not mistaken I think the .204 at 250 yards only has like 700 Foot lbs of energy. I shoot my .204 out to 600 yards on paper and am extrememely comfortable with my gun and its abilities with me behind it and I would not attempt a 250 yard shot on a Mule Deer out west that is probably upwards of 200 lbs. My last 2 mulies both field dressed at over 200. Even if you did make a clean lucky shot, after taking into account the wind and the drop of that round, and happen to drop him in his tracks it is still inhumane. The risks of wounding it and it running off are far greater than you dropping him where he stands with that round at that range.
With that being said, what the weather conditions like that day?
Do you have any idea how much a .204 moves in ONLY a 10 mph hour wind at 250 yards?

Edited by Chris Farris II - January/31/2012 at 09:07
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 08:53
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

... i would be a little more leery of the .460
No Kidding.
Actually, I'd rather have a Lott, but my friend's .460 Roy is for sale right now and is tempting.

Lot's of people successfully hunt deer with a .223. I loaded/zeroed some Barnes 62 gr TSX this past season, just for that purpose, but used an old standby .30-06, instead... mainly because I'm getting too old to be dragging around a 12+ lb. AR through tough territory...
definitely not an Ultra Light (fire)Arm.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 09:41
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Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

You are the one that said "Are bullets that fragment considered soft point or expanding bullets?"
It is basically the same type of bullet --- releasing all energy into the animal.
 
What does releasing all energy into the animal amount to if the bullet blows up and doesn't penetrate to the vitals?


There seems to be two schools of thought on this from what I can see. Berger/hornady  is advertizing if the bullet fragments before going all the way through the animal therefore releasing all energy in the animal. Other manufactures like nosler/barnes bullets advertize weight retention all the way through the animal.
I personally use barnes tipped TSX's and the work fine for me.

I guess... six to half dozen to the other??




In varmints many people want the bullet to explode inside of the animal so it does not ruin the pelt on the way out.  They are designed to do that for that reason.  Small varmints the internal explosion will actually blow them apart.

On big game penetration is what is important not explosion.  You want that bullet to penetrate deep enough that it hits the organs.  If it keeps going or stops at that point it really does not matter.  As long as it reaches and destroys those vitals.   They use solids alot of the time on African game.  No expansion at all, just penetration to reach the vitals.

Vmax are not for big game.  What happens if you hit a shoulder bone or even a rib.  Now all you do it wound the animal.  With a proper big game hunting bullet if you hit bone it will break that bone and continue to penetrate to the vitals with a varmit bullet it will just explode.  The real light weight varmint bullets will be even worse as they have no mass to aid in penetration.  They will slow very quickly because of mass a lone.  Then the explosive nature of their design will make that even more so. 

And on the meat in the freezer, I don't see how that proves anything.  I can show you a pick of elk in my freezer and say I shot it with anything.  He may have killed a deer with a .204, but that does not make it a good choice.  It is a terrible choice for many many reasons. 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 09:56
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in some states you'd get your guns taken for using a vmax type bullet on a deer. and most states have a minimum caliber for deer, and it's not .204. .204 should be used specifically for varmints, and it does a hell of a job on them, a couple guys i groundhog hunt with use them. one guy pulled a 540 yd headshot, with his 204
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:34
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:45
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

I don't believe that for a minute as I have shot both quite a bit in Mark V's. In fact I have shot Mark V's in .240, .340, .378 and .460. The Mark V is a heavy gun and in the lighter calibers, with the Weatherby Mark V stock, is very easy on the shoulder.

my .300wby doesnt kick at all, i like  love that rifle. i would be a little more leery of the .460 but i would sure like to try a .340.


I does to someone(monte carlo stock or not) that had quad by-pass surgery less than a year before.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:47
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Why not get a slightly larger caliber that would be far more efficent for big game and a heavier gun combined with a muzzle brake instead of using a round like the .204?
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:54
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Because it doesn't weigh 4.75 pounds...Damn ounces are killers! Fair chase...
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:54
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.204 is a great round, not for deer though. Especially not @250 yds.
 
You're looking at about 4" of drop, throw in a 10 mph wind (a gentle breeze) and you are looking at about 6" of drift... and that's if it stays constant. Throw a 15 mph gust into the picture and you're looking at 9-10" of drift... easily moving POI well outside the already small kill zone for that size projectile.
 
He may have very well taken 3 mule deer with a .204 and he may be a very very good shot, but its not worth the risk of wounding an animal like that and having it run off. Because your luck will run out and it will be a bad situation sooner or later.
That one deer would ruin those three you have already harvested IMO.
 
What I really want to know is, what kind of glass is on that .204?
 
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:55
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Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

I have and shot a .204 with 40 grain bullets on a regular basis. Also about 7 or 8 years ago when my father and I used to hunt quite a bit more, the rifles we took out on a regular basis were the .240 Wby mag and the .257 wby mag. The .257 is no where in the ballpark of kicking like a mule. Back to the .204, could you shoot a deer with it? Probably if it was a small white tail and you shot it in the neck inside of 100 yards. If I am not mistaken I think the .204 at 250 yards only has like 700 Foot lbs of energy. I shoot my .204 out to 600 yards on paper and am extrememely comfortable with my gun and its abilities with me behind it and I would not attempt a 250 yard shot on a Mule Deer out west that is probably upwards of 200 lbs. My last 2 mulies both field dressed at over 200. Even if you did make a clean lucky shot, after taking into account the wind and the drop of that round, and happen to drop him in his tracks it is still inhumane. The risks of wounding it and it running off are far greater than you dropping him where he stands with that round at that range.
With that being said, what the weather conditions like that day?
Do you have any idea how much a .204 moves in ONLY a 10 mph hour wind at 250 yards?


The average western south dakota fall day. As you can see from the pic a two year old 180-190 pounds center mass shot ran 40-50 yards and fell over. A 3oo yrd drag give or take to the pickup I did all the drag'n.
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:01
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Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

I have and shot a .204 with 40 grain bullets on a regular basis. Also about 7 or 8 years ago when my father and I used to hunt quite a bit more, the rifles we took out on a regular basis were the .240 Wby mag and the .257 wby mag. The .257 is no where in the ballpark of kicking like a mule. Back to the .204, could you shoot a deer with it? Probably if it was a small white tail and you shot it in the neck inside of 100 yards. If I am not mistaken I think the .204 at 250 yards only has like 700 Foot lbs of energy. I shoot my .204 out to 600 yards on paper and am extrememely comfortable with my gun and its abilities with me behind it and I would not attempt a 250 yard shot on a Mule Deer out west that is probably upwards of 200 lbs. My last 2 mulies both field dressed at over 200. Even if you did make a clean lucky shot, after taking into account the wind and the drop of that round, and happen to drop him in his tracks it is still inhumane. The risks of wounding it and it running off are far greater than you dropping him where he stands with that round at that range.
With that being said, what the weather conditions like that day?
Do you have any idea how much a .204 moves in ONLY a 10 mph hour wind at 250 yards?


The average western south dakota fall day. As you can see from the pic a two year old 180-190 pounds center mass shot ran 40-50 yards and fell over. A 3oo yrd drag give or take to the pickup I did all the drag'n.
What does the "average western south dakota fall day" consist of? How windy was it?
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:03
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You could go .223 and shoot the 70 grain barns triple shock.  Still very little recoil and a whole lot more penetration and a proper bullet.  
Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:10
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Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

... i would be a little more leery of the .460
No Kidding.
Actually, I'd rather have a Lott, but my friend's .460 Roy is for sale right now and is tempting.

Lot's of people successfully hunt deer with a .223. I loaded/zeroed some Barnes 62 gr TSX this past season, just for that purpose, but used an old standby .30-06, instead... mainly because I'm getting too old to be dragging around a 12+ lb. AR through tough territory...
definitely not an Ultra Light (fire)Arm.


That is the original place were this thread ran into the reeds. The ballistics are not all that different between the .204 and the .223 I personalty know a far amount of people that use a .223 for both whitetails and mule deer out here. I don't see were all of this is going with "you need such and such to shot this and that" I have read about some of the outfitters up in alaska will not let some their clients shot moose and bear with 30-06 anymore(too small)... that plain stupid in every sense. My uncle lived in alaska(worked for a utility supple company) for near 30 years that is all he used up there for sheep, goats, moose, bear, wolverines, etc.

Like I said before it all about shot placement whether using a cannon or a .223/.204 bad shot placement with ether your going to be chasing your venison.


Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:15
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Ballistics aren't much different...Terminal effects of the bullets referred to are! I don't think there are any penetrating bullets even offered for a 20 cal...Because it is a groundhog rifle!
 
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