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Chris Farris II View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:36
Get Your Popcorn Ready
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:45
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

I don't believe that for a minute as I have shot both quite a bit in Mark V's. In fact I have shot Mark V's in .240, .340, .378 and .460. The Mark V is a heavy gun and in the lighter calibers, with the Weatherby Mark V stock, is very easy on the shoulder.

my .300wby doesnt kick at all, i like  love that rifle. i would be a little more leery of the .460 but i would sure like to try a .340.


I does to someone(monte carlo stock or not) that had quad by-pass surgery less than a year before.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:47
Why not get a slightly larger caliber that would be far more efficent for big game and a heavier gun combined with a muzzle brake instead of using a round like the .204?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:54
Because it doesn't weigh 4.75 pounds...Damn ounces are killers! Fair chase...
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:54
.204 is a great round, not for deer though. Especially not @250 yds.
 
You're looking at about 4" of drop, throw in a 10 mph wind (a gentle breeze) and you are looking at about 6" of drift... and that's if it stays constant. Throw a 15 mph gust into the picture and you're looking at 9-10" of drift... easily moving POI well outside the already small kill zone for that size projectile.
 
He may have very well taken 3 mule deer with a .204 and he may be a very very good shot, but its not worth the risk of wounding an animal like that and having it run off. Because your luck will run out and it will be a bad situation sooner or later.
That one deer would ruin those three you have already harvested IMO.
 
What I really want to know is, what kind of glass is on that .204?
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:55
Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

I have and shot a .204 with 40 grain bullets on a regular basis. Also about 7 or 8 years ago when my father and I used to hunt quite a bit more, the rifles we took out on a regular basis were the .240 Wby mag and the .257 wby mag. The .257 is no where in the ballpark of kicking like a mule. Back to the .204, could you shoot a deer with it? Probably if it was a small white tail and you shot it in the neck inside of 100 yards. If I am not mistaken I think the .204 at 250 yards only has like 700 Foot lbs of energy. I shoot my .204 out to 600 yards on paper and am extrememely comfortable with my gun and its abilities with me behind it and I would not attempt a 250 yard shot on a Mule Deer out west that is probably upwards of 200 lbs. My last 2 mulies both field dressed at over 200. Even if you did make a clean lucky shot, after taking into account the wind and the drop of that round, and happen to drop him in his tracks it is still inhumane. The risks of wounding it and it running off are far greater than you dropping him where he stands with that round at that range.
With that being said, what the weather conditions like that day?
Do you have any idea how much a .204 moves in ONLY a 10 mph hour wind at 250 yards?


The average western south dakota fall day. As you can see from the pic a two year old 180-190 pounds center mass shot ran 40-50 yards and fell over. A 3oo yrd drag give or take to the pickup I did all the drag'n.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:01
Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

I have and shot a .204 with 40 grain bullets on a regular basis. Also about 7 or 8 years ago when my father and I used to hunt quite a bit more, the rifles we took out on a regular basis were the .240 Wby mag and the .257 wby mag. The .257 is no where in the ballpark of kicking like a mule. Back to the .204, could you shoot a deer with it? Probably if it was a small white tail and you shot it in the neck inside of 100 yards. If I am not mistaken I think the .204 at 250 yards only has like 700 Foot lbs of energy. I shoot my .204 out to 600 yards on paper and am extrememely comfortable with my gun and its abilities with me behind it and I would not attempt a 250 yard shot on a Mule Deer out west that is probably upwards of 200 lbs. My last 2 mulies both field dressed at over 200. Even if you did make a clean lucky shot, after taking into account the wind and the drop of that round, and happen to drop him in his tracks it is still inhumane. The risks of wounding it and it running off are far greater than you dropping him where he stands with that round at that range.
With that being said, what the weather conditions like that day?
Do you have any idea how much a .204 moves in ONLY a 10 mph hour wind at 250 yards?


The average western south dakota fall day. As you can see from the pic a two year old 180-190 pounds center mass shot ran 40-50 yards and fell over. A 3oo yrd drag give or take to the pickup I did all the drag'n.
What does the "average western south dakota fall day" consist of? How windy was it?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:03
You could go .223 and shoot the 70 grain barns triple shock.  Still very little recoil and a whole lot more penetration and a proper bullet.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:10
Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

... i would be a little more leery of the .460
No Kidding.
Actually, I'd rather have a Lott, but my friend's .460 Roy is for sale right now and is tempting.

Lot's of people successfully hunt deer with a .223. I loaded/zeroed some Barnes 62 gr TSX this past season, just for that purpose, but used an old standby .30-06, instead... mainly because I'm getting too old to be dragging around a 12+ lb. AR through tough territory...
definitely not an Ultra Light (fire)Arm.


That is the original place were this thread ran into the reeds. The ballistics are not all that different between the .204 and the .223 I personalty know a far amount of people that use a .223 for both whitetails and mule deer out here. I don't see were all of this is going with "you need such and such to shot this and that" I have read about some of the outfitters up in alaska will not let some their clients shot moose and bear with 30-06 anymore(too small)... that plain stupid in every sense. My uncle lived in alaska(worked for a utility supple company) for near 30 years that is all he used up there for sheep, goats, moose, bear, wolverines, etc.

Like I said before it all about shot placement whether using a cannon or a .223/.204 bad shot placement with ether your going to be chasing your venison.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:15
Ballistics aren't much different...Terminal effects of the bullets referred to are! I don't think there are any penetrating bullets even offered for a 20 cal...Because it is a groundhog rifle!
 
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:17
The .204 doesn't come in a 70 grain bullet and I doubt anyone using a .223 to hunt deer use a 40 grain or smaller bullet. That pretty much makes this arguement worthless. Our entire point is that a .204 will explode upon impact and more than likely not make it to the vitals.
 
Edited to remove long list of cluttered quotes.


Edited by Chris Farris II - January/31/2012 at 11:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:18
Originally posted by jjrgr21 jjrgr21 wrote:

in some states you'd get your guns taken for using a vmax type bullet on a deer. and most states have a minimum caliber for deer, and it's not .204. .204 should be used specifically for varmints, and it does a hell of a job on them, a couple guys i groundhog hunt with use them. one guy pulled a 540 yd headshot, with his 204


That maybe so. But as I stated when this thread went in to the weeds there is a good reason he was shooting a .204 and NOT his .257 or .300 wby.
Again, a .204 IS perfectly LEGAL in SD and worked just fine on the deer just like a .223 works just fine for a lot people in the west that being the original fork in this thread... a ultra light "mountain rifle" chambered in .223.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:25
Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

Ballistics aren't much different...Terminal effects of the bullets referred to are! I don't think there are any penetrating bullets even offered for a 20 cal...Because it is a groundhog rifle!
 
Excellent
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:26
Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

Why not get a slightly larger caliber that would be far more efficent for big game and a heavier gun combined with a muzzle brake instead of using a round like the .204?


He bought a 110 savage at a gun show chambered in .204 and saw the ballistics were perfectly legal and that being a zero recoil set up.
And a that time he had quad by-pass surgery less than 9 months before he was looking for the lowest recoil possible that was legal. With that surgery they split his chest right down the middle needless to say he was still somewhat tender.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:27
Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

Because it doesn't weigh 4.75 pounds...Damn ounces are killers! Fair chase...


If you read the thread it was not for me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:28
This is a pointless, but, in a 223 they make stronger bullets, they have thicker jackets that are made to penetrate.  That is the difference.  In .20 cal they do not.

Look at the .20 cal 40 grain vmax.  It has a thin jacket that is made to explode not penetrate.  The sectional density is .137, that is very low.  Optimally a sectional density of .230ish would be best for medium sized game.  Even that 70 grain barnes only has an SD of .199.  But it has the advantage of being a stronger bullet built to penetrate. 

The ballistics very well may show the numbers to be legal.  But the bullets are not a good choice, even the manufactures say that. 

Anyway no point in debating it more, ultimately he can shoot what he wants. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:38
Originally posted by dillon_h dillon_h wrote:

.204 is a great round, not for deer though. Especially not @250 yds.
 
You're looking at about 4" of drop, throw in a 10 mph wind (a gentle breeze) and you are looking at about 6" of drift... and that's if it stays constant. Throw a 15 mph gust into the picture and you're looking at 9-10" of drift... easily moving POI well outside the already small kill zone for that size projectile.
 
He may have very well taken 3 mule deer with a .204 and he may be a very very good shot, but its not worth the risk of wounding an animal like that and having it run off. Because your luck will run out and it will be a bad situation sooner or later.
That one deer would ruin those three you have already harvested IMO.
 
What I really want to know is, what kind of glass is on that .204?
 


Well, his hunting days are most likely at their maybe a year or two more at the most. It was good for him to get out and do something he loved then and let his situation beat him.
It worked out great as a family outing. I was only there when he shoot the buck not the does(somewhere around 250) pretty controlled shooting from the hood of the pick-up not overly windy on a tiny buck. He has hunted all his life so yes, he is as good shot as most anyone else who has hunted most of his life... I guess.


Edited by rustic - January/31/2012 at 15:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:40
Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Originally posted by dillon_h dillon_h wrote:

.204 is a great round, not for deer though. Especially not @250 yds.
 
You're looking at about 4" of drop, throw in a 10 mph wind (a gentle breeze) and you are looking at about 6" of drift... and that's if it stays constant. Throw a 15 mph gust into the picture and you're looking at 9-10" of drift... easily moving POI well outside the already small kill zone for that size projectile.
 
He may have very well taken 3 mule deer with a .204 and he may be a very very good shot, but its not worth the risk of wounding an animal like that and having it run off. Because your luck will run out and it will be a bad situation sooner or later.
That one deer would ruin those three you have already harvested IMO.
 
What I really want to know is, what kind of glass is on that .204?
 


Well, his hunting days are most likely at their maybe a year or two more at the most. It was good for him to get out and do something he loved and let his situation beat him.
It worked out great as a family outing. I was only there when he shoot the buck not the does(somewhere around 250) pretty controlled shooting from the hood of the pick-up not overly windy on a tiny buck. He has hunted all his life so yes, he is as good shot as most anyone else who has hunted most of his life... I guess. A pentax 3-9.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:43
Originally posted by rustic rustic wrote:

Anyone have these?

Model 20 Rifle (The Ultimate Mountain Rifle) - built upon an intermediate length action. It is designed for exceptional accuracy with .308 class cartridges, yet maintains an extremely light weight. The action weighs a modest 20 ounces, and the finished rifle is only 5 pounds. Featuring a 3- inch magazine, the Ultimate Mountain rifle is available in all .308 length calibers, including .243 Winchester, 6mm Remington, .257 Roberts, 7mm-08, and .284. A 3 inch magazine is featured to allow extra versatility during load development.

Model 20 Short (The Ultimate Mountain Rifle) - a short action rifle that is designed for the absolute utmost in portablility and accuracy. The action itself weighs a mere twenty ounces in finished form, with completed rifle scaling 4.75 pounds before the scope is added. The Ultimate Mountain Rifle is available in short action calibers from .17 Remington through .223 Remington.

Love
Ummm this isn't your original post? Every other thread that you have posted in isn't about how much things weigh? Really? 
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2012 at 11:51
  I bought one of Melvin's rifles years ago and would recommend any variant to a real hunter that could handle holding a very light weight rifle steady, and could afford the steep (but reasonable) price tag.  Very few hunters need to have a rifle this light, but if ounces are all that matter then Forbes is the guy.
 
  As for the the rest of this topic - unethical stunts like shooting deer "center mass" at 250 yards with a varmit rifle may be possible, but is offensive at the best.  It would be a shame for a Forbes rifle to be associated with this type of activity.
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