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We are under attack

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2012 at 12:57
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For what it is worth.  I am trying to buy more non China made goods.  Case in point, I bought my first slip on work boots in 27 years this week.  I have worn Red Wing lace ups with the occasional Justin, Wolverine, or Rocky's all of these years.  With the company discount and voucher I usually have to pay 20 or less on my end depending on the boot.  The lady said that the Double H's were made in Pennsylvania (this was after I had chosen my latest Red Wing). 
 
Conversation went something like this:
 
I thought Red Wings were made in America?  Nope, they are pretty much made in China with American material as are a lot of our boots.
Which ones are made in America?  A lot of the Justins, all of the Lucheses, Double HH work boots and a few others but you have to look to be sure.  I had to pay $50.00 for my part this time but I don't mind.  I thought I had been buying American all along and I have decent situational awareness.
 
Of course in regards to this thread and optics:  Made in China BSA's, Simmons, or whatever brand are one thing.  Straight up relabeled fakes are a whole different issue.
 
Be careful where you spend your money because it isn't too cheap if you end up buying things three or four times.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2012 at 16:10
Bitterroot Bulls View Drop Down
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Check out this link for what can be made in America:
Made in America in Montana


Edited by Bitterroot Bulls - January/10/2012 at 21:09
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2012 at 19:05
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Umm..... Red Wing Shoes and boots are made in America. The Red Wing Shoe brand is still primarily handmade in the USA at the company's plants in Potosi, Missouri and Danville, Kentucky and two plants in Red Wing, Minnesota.  That said, some of the other lines they carry are made overseas.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/11/2012 at 11:05
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Fire,
 
That is what I thought all of these years but the pair I initially picked were these:  http://www.redwingshoes.com/red-wing-shoe/2235-red-wing-shoes/2235-red-wing-mens-6-inch-boot-brown
 
Looked them over well.  Click that little information circle by Made In China.  There were others as well and all were made in China (out of the RW lace ups that I looked at on display).
 
The point I was mostly trying to spotlight was the need to really look.  My company is selling technology to them and building plants over there as well.  That said, I can put a little effort into buying American when practical.
 
I will look for the Red Wings that are made here especially if I find that I don't like these Double HH slip ons that I bought as I put some concrete and steel miles on them.
 
I like good optics so that part of the conversation shouldn't affect me unless I somehow end up with a counterfeit.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2012 at 19:06
G Kurtz View Drop Down
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In the first part of this tread I tried to give evidence to the danger represented by China’s attack to our defense industry, in particular referring to the opto=tactical sector. Trademarks infringements, technology theft, brand counterfeiting, total disregard of international commercial laws (despite the so much acclaimed China entering in WTO back in 2002) plus production at very low cost due to complete lack of respect for the life and rights of the workers are the disgusting amass of weaponry China is deploying against us. But even worst of all these is the attitude of some western manager who, looking for easy and fast money or sometime just trying to make his brand to survive in this no-law jungle, do relocate production in China. Production relocation can have a value where does exist the rule of law. As there is NO such thing in China to relocate there is suicide: they will steal your technology, your brand, your vision, your everything and then they will leave you out alone in the darkness. Then, just try – as a foreigner - to lawsuit some Chinese manufacture, in China, and you will have an idea of the REAL situation … But then it will be far too late. E.g check the “Ferrero against Tresor” lawsuit, which established a first-case record and went to Financial Times first page years ago. Tresor (meaning “treasure” in Italian North-Eastern dialect) was a TOTALLY Chinese brand, masquerading itself as European and marketing a complete copy (back to the kind of lettering, the box, the shape etc …) of the Ferrero Rocher (delicious) chocolate stuff. Old Ferrero family’s brand declared war and went to China for Justice. First answer form Chinese court was: “Tresor (sic!) is an oldest and more respected brand than Ferrero; so Ferrero has to pay some money  to Tresor!” Well, they do NOT surrendered and after many more years they were declared to be right by the Chinese higher court … and entitled to have a reimbursement of something like $ 50,000 … when they had spent MILLIONs dollar in the process! OK, but they won … but of course a smaller or less solid company will not be able to take such kind of satisfaction.  

 

So, the sad situation is at present we – the West – do NOT have the capacity to enforce the rule of international law in PR China. Therefore we have to be conscious of this and do PREVENT further damages.

 

It seems from the words I read on this forum the American Shooters/Hunters community (or at least the part of it who follows this forum, probably the more educated and conscious section of it) is aware of this situation. As much as this is very good I’m not so sure of the attitude of American managers … by will or by force relocations of production do continue. E.g. Vortex Crossfire line is totally made in China as much as many more “fake-western-names” brands or production lines. And we probably do NOT know exactly how many … managers seem reluctant to give this kind of info.

 

As I personally do NOT want NEVER to see a Remington made in China, as much as a made in China Beretta I would like western warriors to be very aware of the present danger in the opto-tactical sector and to do their best to NEVER buy NOTHING which is made in China, at least in this sector. I know it is not easy, but ALL the important things are not easy to achieve.

 

Then there is more than this, which I will try  to convey in the next part of this tread, i.e. that WHILE INVADING OUR MARKET WITH SHIXXY PRODUCTS (IN THIS STRATEGIC SECTOR) AND TRYING TO DISRUPT THE CAPACITY OF OUR OPTO-TACTICAL INDUSTRY, CHINA IS DEVELOPING - AND IS ALREADY WELL ADVANCED - IN TIS SAME SECTOR, WITH PRODUCTS WHICH ARE NOT MARKETED IN THE WEST.

 

Point is they have ample visibility of our situation and development while we have little (public) vision of what is going on inside the PR China. Not a good tactical situation. We shall try to ameliorate.

 

So more on this later. Would like to see Your comments, guys

 

A+

K

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2012 at 09:08
G Kurtz View Drop Down
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There are a lot of poachers in China, but a regular, lawful, educated hunters' community is virtually not-existent ...

The only form of more or less organized/authorized hunt appears in the kind of very expensive "safaris" aimed to kill quite exotic wild animals (no matter if endangered species) in very remote areas of the country, generally to the benefit of some rich foreigner. Then, as in all authoritarian countries, civilians are highly inhibited to own (not to mention to carry) firearms. Therefore the only "civilians" going around armed (Berettas M9 are the preferred tools) are Mafia Triads guys. Outside M&P people the sport of targeting it is also discouraged, especially regarding the use of operative tools: i.e. in authorized ranges the cost (for a civilian) of A SINGLE 7.62x39  low quality ammo for the AK47 is 50 yuen (= 8 US $!).

In such a a situation one should expect that public info and media upon weapons will be very limited. On the contrary, there is a very relevant amount of Chinese magazines and Chinese Net material upon firearms, especially light and medium caliber. Such material is nearly totally dedicated to defense (or attack?); but U will find nothing inside upon hunting firearms.

Then such material generally deals very lightly with Chinese weapons and optical production, while it covers quite extensively the western production form US and EU. And this not limited to normal factory lines "irons & glasses", but also to very specialized limited series. Just as examples U can see here some pix from Chinese media:

or

So it appears that the Chinese has a very ample vision of our western arms production and state of advancements in this sector, while we westerner have little to no vision (at least at public level) of what is going on inside China.

 

Such sit is unhealthy, so we will try to improve it a little.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2012 at 20:33
G Kurtz View Drop Down
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So … shall U be a PLA’s [People's "Liberation" (hahaha!) Army] private, this is what U will see looking inside your MGL 95-1 300 

 
That is a quite simple but sturdy, low-weight and effective low light targeting device normally installed on the new Chinese QBZ 95-1 5.8mm assault rifle.
(95-1 is here with grenade launcher and conventional optiks YMA 95-1 600). Here under is a bunch of 95-1 roughly tested for amphibious ops.
Nothing to share with the usual amass of broke-laden, crap-plastic, bad-metal-combo we generally see coming out from China, ya? 

Then, shall U need something a little more precise and long range then can revert to this (8-32x50)

 
and install that on this (CS/LR4 7.62) 
And if U are a quite good shooter the result can be this ...(100m)
  

Not so bad, nein? So it seems the Chineses are already able to produce international standard quality opto-mechanical weaponry equipment. Then ... why they are so happy to still invade our markets with crap low quality things ...?

 

In the heavy caliber range they also produce some national stuff but here as far as I know the level is still not comparable to our tools of the trade ...

 

In the next post we will see what kind of marksmanship level Chinese staff can attain with their tools

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2012 at 13:04
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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I'm old enough to remember that the quality of Japanese goods after the war was so lousy as to be the subject of many jokes.
The Japanese wiped that smile off our face a long time ago.

The whole mess we've gotten into has come about not only from the competitiveness of world neighbors, but in even greater measure, from the corrupt sweetheart deals cut by congress and some domestic players trying to structure our tax system in such a way that smaller US firms can in no way compete against the US' bigger international players.

We've already been sold down the river. It's just a matter of time before we get sucked under that logjam just around the bend.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2012 at 23:15
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I think with the high corp. taxes and union bosses working to jack up labor costs so their members could pay more in dues along with other shady deals started a long time ago. This is a huge player in what we are seeing now and the tidal wave of problems that going to be showing up on our doorstep in the future.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2012 at 23:27
G Kurtz View Drop Down
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Hallo Alan
Ya, thanx for your point. In great part I agree with You on the reasons. Money without honor is devil. Ethics must be restored in the West.
However let me write down that the Japs - after that HUGE collapse of their whole system (including the divine role of the Emperor and the like) back in 1945, NEVER went back into right wing militarism ... and (although I've been a Toyota Celica, Suzukis and Nikon user) the best car is still Ferrari, the best motorbyke is still ol'good Harley, and  best camera is still Leica.
 
Then now China is a new and bigger treat  because of the sheer dimension (1.5 billion guys) and of the attitude (super right wing, nazi-like, authoritarian militaristic paternalistic government with unrestrained capitalism, no rule of law and no-possible-critics in the hyper-uninformed population). This, plus a well camouflagaed vision from outside: NO western diplomat nor businessman will be ever let free to  go alone in PR China to see from himself how's going ... especially in sensitive area, like e.g. Inner Mongolia or Tibet
 
And I will not be so pessimistic. They told me if you fight with honor and bravery, even if destroyed and killed, your spirit will always come back, stronger and dangerous, and you always win (von Clausewitz). I believe it
 
A+
K
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 03:20
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Originally posted by coldhunt coldhunt wrote:

I think it is realy time for the North American, and the European consumer to wake up, and demand products built in other than china factories, and with other than made in China parts.
They are demolishing all of our economies, and no one realy sees it. China Mart certainly sees it, and doesn't care becasue they are going to control all retail worldwide, and what is good for them is good for them.

There's a problem here, the US export regulations and the attitudes of american manufacturers to foreign customers (we're not worth the bother). The US has since 2001 tightened control and export of anything vaguely gun related so it's no longer possible or exceedingly expensive for many products. 

Lots of people here would've bought ACOG's if they could have bought them from america, but because of the expense and complexity of the export regulations the only way to get an ACOG is via a few dealers and the price I was quoted on a new TA11 was 2000 euros. I am not that stupid or desperate. 

There is a demand in europe but who would pay 2000 euros for a fixed 3.5x scope that's ~800 euros in the states? Doesn't help that Trijicon has decided to protect their overseas dealers and prevents US dealers like Brownells to even sell them to a non-us entity, even though they legally could. In addition we have several US companies that just plain refuse to deal with non-us customers.

China OTOH sells to whoever has the cash.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2012 at 21:55
G Kurtz View Drop Down
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Hi guys … maybe better I’ll try to finish those posts before being kicked out from here …

Ok. Let me introduce You this guy, nicely dressed for party: Mr Xu Bo, the best China’s police sniper

 

Last year’s May in Hungary Mr Xu and his team entered as competitors in the 10th M&P Sniper World Cup. Participation to this game was opened also to non-NATO countries: 19 nations were represented (including US and UK) with 118 shooters/spotters totally. Here U see the two Chinese teams (Military and Police) participating,

 
including the two nice ladies who U can see in action here.
Notice the Chinese police team conservatively used good old Kahles optik 
while PLA’s utilized the new national Chinese 8-32x50. Both were equipped with the CS/LR4 sniper rifle. There were five events. Results as follows:
- Army teams: 1st China         
- Army individuals: 1st China
- Police teams: 1st Czech       
- Police individuals: 1st China
- Best overall: 1st China (best shooter: Mr Xu Bo)

OK

Somebody claimed this happened because all best western snipers teams are in the field on the various theaters ... Well, I think this is just bullsh*t. Or maybe yak-crap. What do U think?

 

In the next post we will see what kind of operative use they do of this well trained personnel and effective weapons.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2012 at 23:41
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This famous video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veQIdaR0J70 has been shot in the Himalayas in September 2006 by a Romanian climbing expedition. It shows a group of young Tibetans painstakingly walking in the snow on the 18,755 feet high Nangpa-la pass, trying to escape in Nepal to find comfort and guidance by their spiritual leader and, maybe even more importantly, to have some chance of education, to give some future to their lives. Then, without any warning nor intimidation for a halt, Chinese Police snipers open fire on them. The Tibetans, many of them just children, have no weapons and are moving slowly, black spots on the white snow, in perfect visibility.  The 17 years old girl Kelsang Namtso, last in the row, is killed instantly. Others are wounded. Only too late the stupid Chinese patrol realizes the presence of the witnessing foreign climbers and stop shooting.  Of the 75 persons trying to escape that day 42 managed to cross the border and be free. The other 32, including most children (5 years old the younger) plus the wounded and maybe dying people, were taken prisoners. To this day 13 of them are still unaccounted for. The Chinese PBP tried to intimidate the Romanian climbers and confiscate the footage they were just suspecting had been shot. Fortunately, operator Sergiu Matei managed to smuggle it. The Slovenian climber Pavle Kozjek was also able to keep some photo of the incident.

Significantly – and with VERY shame – many foreign climbers present that day on the Cho-Oyo base camp were ready to keep things quiet for fear of revoked climbing permits and sh*t like that! Official explanation by Ch Gov was that: (a) PBP opened fire in self defense, (b) Tibetan girl died because lack of Oxygen (! ... a Tibetan!) and (c) all the story is a fabricated Western plot … ridiculously all three in obvious sheer conflict to each other.

 

Now please consider that this incident happened in end-summer, daytime in clear weather, and the Romanians were there for a post-monsoon climb: so this tragic rendez-vous happened just by chance. The reality is that the China’s Himalayan borders with Burma Bhutan Sikkim Nepal Ladakh India Pakistan and Afghanistan is over 5,000 kilometers long (3,225 km is the Indo-Chinese border only ) and nowadays most of those escapade trials are taking place nighttime, in winter and sometime in bad weather/low visibility. Then of course the danger of dying of exposition is great, but still less than the one given by a wily 7.62 Chinese bullet. More than 3,000 desperate and mainly young Tibetans are trying their chances every year in this hazardous move in search of Freedom and Hope.

  

I don't think any more comment is necessary. America effectively helped Tibetans in their struggle for survival in the 50’s and 60's (e.g. see Mr Knaus’s book “Orphans of the Cold War”) ... just to leave them alone in ‘74 after the Kissinger/Deng opening!

 

Now the danger of Chinese rule, their aggressive economical policies and strategic quest for energy all over the world, plus well hidden continuous military grow up are in the line to pose a serious treat to the West in nearby future. One shall stay in TAR (Tibet “Autonomous” Region) to see what does it means the "harmonious and peaceful" rule of China. China's Gov has no respect for people (even his own people) for Land and for Culture (even his own land & culture!). There is no future like this, no real development, no nothing in leaving Chinese Gov continuous rule.

 

My message: please American shooter’s community try not to buy nothing Made in China (I know is  not easy: all the important things are not easy) especially in the weapon and optical sector. Be aware of the usage of fake western names covering Chinese manufactures and owners. Do NOT give premium to western managers who, in pure search of more easy earnings, are relocating production in China, lowering the quality, losing work force in USA … and wasting your money. Remember what our grandfather already knew very well: buy quality, not quantity!

 

Moreover: shall we destroy our industry in this sector then it will be not easy to reactivate it and to remain in the front of technology and sciences when we will need it for our survival

 

Wish all the best for all of You in this 2139 Royal Tibetan year of the Water Dragon, which starts just today

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2012 at 07:36
G Kurtz View Drop Down
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And ... ahh ... a big THANK U also to SWFA for the hospitality
GK
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2012 at 12:19
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Originally posted by G Kurtz G Kurtz wrote:

And ... ahh ... a big THANK U also to SWFA for the hospitality
GK
 
Your welcome
And thank you for all your insight.
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