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What should I get???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 15:07
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Optics GrassHopper
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I want to shoot 1000 yards with a 308. Any ideas on what rife I should get? Would love to stay under $1000 if that is even possible...
 
Thanks!
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1K is a stretch with a 308 and < $1000 is tough. I'd be looking at Savage. The FCP-CR is a 308 @$1250 MSRP. Just my 2 cents, but you would probably be happier with a F Class 6.5x284 as it is a superior cartridge in a rifle built to punch paper at extended ranges. But it costs more too.

Scopes are expensive too when you're talking 1K ranges.

The top feature of the Savages is the easy barrel replacement when that day comes.
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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=330934435
 
 
These are some out of the box rifles I would consider if I were lookin a 1000yd 308 for under a grand. Keep in mind that the rifle is only half the equasion. Even a 3000.00 rifle is only as good as your optics. If you budget 1K for your rifle you need to budget atleast that for your optics. Even then I don't like too many scopes in that price range for a 1000yd set up. Ziess, IOR, Super Sniper, Meoptia and a few other top end scopes is where I would be lookin next. You want top quality glass and coatings, top of the line tracking and turretts and a 30mm or bigger tube for elevation adjustment. You will probably get many other calibers suggested but if you want 308 then these are the rifles I'd consider. Good Luck!
 
Welcome to the OT. Hope we can be helpful!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 16:36
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Optics GrassHopper
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Thanks! My reason for wanting to punch paper at 1000 is because of the challenge. I want to be able to do something with a rifle that is not quite "the norm", if you know what I mean. ;) What is 6.5x284? Sorry, still not as smart when it comes to "decimal" calibers. :)
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 16:41
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Go someplace where you can see a 1000 actual yards you might want to learn to shoot at 300 to 500 yards first.

Peddler   
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Originally posted by Peddler Peddler wrote:

Go someplace where you can see a 1000 actual yards you might want to learn to shoot at 300 to 500 yards first.

Peddler   
 
 Agreed. If you haven't seen 1000yds it will be a bit daunting. But you always start with the desire before you ever get as far as doing it. I imagine where you live its not that uncommon to see great open spans. But even then when you actually see a 3X5 target at 1K it lets you know why just everyone isn't doing it. Depending on the bullet weight and loads you plan to use your choice of 308 will demand a darn good scope with plenty of evelation adjustment. But it is doable. Keep us up on where you go with this.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 17:01
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Optics GrassHopper
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Those rifles got my mouth watering :)
 
It is going to be a while before I will have the funds to make a purchace, but I dont think it will hurt to start learning/understanding now what it is that I really want. I have a fair amount of book knowledge, just not much practical knowledge. (if that makes sense)
 
Since I can only shoot out to 400 yards behind my house, I was thinking I would wait a bit after I buy the rifle to get my 1000 yard scope. I just want the rifle to be capable of making that shot when it comes time.
 
 
Thanks so much for your input!
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Optics GrassHopper
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Right now I shoot 300 yards with my plinking .22 and cheap bulk ammo. Though I definatly understand what you mean! The first time I looked 1000 yards at a target I was like: "Wow - and i think I wanna shoot that. Yea right."

 
But then I started reading, and learning, and doing more reading, and more learning, then some field experience (though not much) and decided that before I am 6 feet under there will be 30 caliber holes in a target 1000 yards from the muzzle of my 308. :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 17:12
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Originally posted by first_shot_kill> first_shot_kill> wrote:

  What is 6.5x284?


An awesomely efficient long range cartridge that takes advantage of the excellent ballistic coefficient (BC) 6.5mm bullets available, so you have less drop and wind drift, and slower velocity loss over distance than .30 caliber, when comparing similar recoil levels. High BC = "more slippery" profile. To get the same or similar BC bullets for .30 caliber as you get from a low drag 6.5, you have to increase bullet mass significantly, which also means you have significantly greater recoil. In the .308 case, these heavier bullets take up excessive case capacity, and that combined with the modest powder capacity of the .308 case to begin with, means your starting muzzle velocity is low, which further increases drop at LR. So, in order to gain the velocity back to get the most from the high BC .30 caliber bullets, you have to launch said bullets from a larger capacity case (i.e. .300 mags), which means even more recoil penalty. In other words, with 6.5 (or 6mm, or 7mm), you get less drop and less wind drift in conjunction with less recoil compared to .30. Or, with the same recoil level, you get significantly less drop than .30 caliber rounds. Either way, I call that win/ win.

The 6.5-.284 is simply the .284 Winchester parent case necked down to accept 6.5mm bullets. While it's not a commercially popular round in factory hunting rifles, it's a very popular round among the LR shooting crowd. Brass is readily available for it, if you handload.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 17:13
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Optics GrassHopper
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By the way, I think I am gonna scrap the "stay under $1000 on the gun" thought.
 
Not sure yet as I would have to travel to even be able to shoot something 1000 yards away without having to worry about hitting a car, person, house, etc...
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Optics GrassHopper
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Handloading is already a definate. Some of why I would like 308 is ammo price. I would still be able to "go out back" and shoot 10 rounds without having to worry about taking food off the table. It would also be my hunting rifle. Actually shooting 1000 yards would not happen very often. It's just something I really want to try before I die. :) Hopefully though, I will be able to afford to go and buy a rifle that I only use to shoot the targets most cant even see. :) (my dream is a .408 Chey Tac)
 
Make any sense? Or is this a dumb idea?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 17:28
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The 6.5x284 is also hard on barrels. Making the barrel life shorter. That is one reason why I am looking at either a 260 Rem or a 6.5 Creedmoore.
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Oh, how I like the Creed!
 
I like the looks of the Savage Long Range Precision (LRP) in 6.5 Creed:
 
 
I have seen them new under $1K
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 21:03
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If you are going to use it as a hunting rifle and do not want to break the bank on ammo. I thing the 308 is probably still a good choice. I still like the 260 Rem or the 6.5 Creedmore better for targets though. But I have heard from a number of people that they were not as happy with it for a hunting caliber.

So for an excellent 308 rifle around a $1000 I would have to go with a Remington 700 SS 5R. I have one and I am very pleased with it.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 21:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 21:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 21:41
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There are several here that really like Tikka. I don't care for em cause of some of the plastic parts they have. Unfortunately more and more new rifles are becomming plagued with plastic. My main concern with that particular one is the light contour barrel. You can shoot it to 1000yds but I wouldn't expect real consistant groups. Now some may prove me wrong and if so I stand corrected. I've done repair work on em but, haven't cared to shoot em.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 21:58
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Originally posted by first_shot_kill> first_shot_kill> wrote:

........... 
Make any sense? Or is this a dumb idea?
 
To start with .308 is the wrong caliber once you are past about 800 yds it drops sub sonic and is less stable. 300 Win Mag is a more realistic choice as is 300 WSM  or the 6.5x284 or 7mm Mag. That said if all you want to do is shoot 1000 yds before you die take a 22 out aim about the height of a telephone pole over the intended target and lob in a round.  The difference between shooting 1000 yds and shooting 1000 yds and having a cold bore first shot kill is years of training and thousands of rounds down range in all kind of inclimate weather conditions while keeping notes.  Beside that you couldnt buy any .308 brass right now if you handed them gold coins.  A Tikka in 300 WSM or 300 Win Mag and a 16x42 Super Sniper in Talley ringmounts will do what you are talking about if you are able to control your breathing and trigger finger. Want to step up to tacticool from there pick up a Remmington Police model or Savage Police model in 300 WM.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 22:01
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Recommendation:
The .308 is acceptable for both military and Law Enforcement use, and is very capable of 800+ meter hits on a human size target. If you are a Law Enforcement sharpshooter, keep in mind the penetrating power of the .308, especially with full metal jacket rounds like the old M118.

For a comprehensive review on available match ammo, visit the Match Ammo Comparison page.


.308 Military Applications


Note: We have listed the military standard M118LR, with its Mk316 Mod 0 and Mod 1 siblings, as obviously being suitable for military sniping. The Federal, HSM, Blackhills, Corbon and other 175gr match loads that use the same bullet would also be suitable as well. Also listed is a HSM 155gr Sierra Matchking (new VLD design) which shows good promise of being an effective long range sniping round. The the old M118 round is outdated, but we have left it on the list only because it is a classic and the information is not available in many places and we didn't want to lose it.

  • M118 = M118 Special Ball - 173gr FMJ-BT (2550fps)
  • M118LR = M118LR Special Ball - 175gr HPBT (2580fps)
  • HSM 155gr = HSM 308-37 .308 Win 155gr HPBT (2860fps)

Bullet Drop (Inches)
100y 91m200y 183m300y 275m400y 366m500y 458m600y 549m700y 641m800y 732m900y 824m1000y 915m
M118+16.5+30.0+36.0+34.0+22.5Zero-35.0-80.0-144.0-230.0
M118LR+17.4+30.4+36.3+34.2+22.6Zero-35.7-86.8-156.1-246.7
HSM 155gr+13.8+24.3+29.2+27.5+18.2Zero-28.8-70.3-127.2-202.9


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - March/04/2013 at 22:21
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30-06 Military Applications

Note: We have chosen the HSM 175gr Match load for military use over the Federal 168gr due to the better bullet design of the 175gr Sierra Match King for long range use. This load could use another 50fps but as it is it is adequate. We have also listed the HSM 190gr SMK which is another excellent, and perhaps preferred load to the 175gr.
Bullet Drop (Inches)
100y 91m200y 183m300y 275m400y 366m500y 458m600y 549m700y 641m800y 732m900y 824m1000y 915m
HSM 175gr+17.5+29.4+34.6+32.3+21.7Zero-33.5-80.6-145.5-229.7
HSM 190gr+17.4+29.0+33.9+31.5+20.9Zero-32.4-77.0-136.3-214.0


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - March/04/2013 at 22:20
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300 Win Mag Military Applications

Note: We have selected two loads here, the A191 which is the same as the Federal Match .300 WM 190gr and the new Mk248 Mod1 220gr load. The A191 has been around for a long time now and has been very effective over the years. The new heavier Mk248 is a more recent development designed specifically for longer range engagements.

  • A191 = 190gr Sierra Match King at 2900fps
  • Mk248Mod1 = 220gr Sierra Match King at 2830fps

Bullet Drop (Inches)
100y 91m200y 183m300y 275m400y 366m500y 458m600y 549m700y 641m800y 732m900y 824m1000y 915m1100y 1007m1200y 1098m
A191+20.6+38.1+50.2+56.3+55.4+46.6+28.6Zero-41.1-96.6-169.1-261.3
Mk248Mod1+20.2+37.1+48.6+54.2+52.9+44.2+26.9Zero-37.8-88.0-152.4-233.0



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - March/04/2013 at 22:19
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  6.5x284  Military Applications

Note:

The Black Hills 142gr was chosen as my preferred load for military applications. This load sends the 142gr match king at 2950fps and out performs the .300WM 190gr Match loads at long ranges.

Black Hills 6.5x284 Norma Match 142gr Sierra Match King at 2950fps

Bullet Drop (Inches)

100y

92m

200y

183m

300y

275m

400y

366m

500y

458m

600y

549m

700y

641m

800y

732m

900y

824m

1000y

915m

+12.0

+21.0

+25.0

+23.3

+15.3

Zero

-23.6

-56.6

-100.6

-157.3

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 22:25
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  7mm Rem Mag  Military Applications

Note:

The HSM 168gr Match King load was choosen for my military application load because it uses the approved for combat Sierra Match King bullet and has really nice long range ballistics.

HSM 7mm Remington Magnum - 168gr Sierra Match King HPBT at 2950fps

Bullet Drop (Inches)

100y

92m

200y

183m

300y

275m

400y

366m

500y

458m

600y

549m

700y

641m

800y

732m

900y

824m

1000y

915m

+12.8

+22.5

+26.9

+25.3

+16.7

0.00

-26.2

-63.7

-114.3

-180.7

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/04/2013 at 23:51
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I would have to aim a lot higher than a telephone pole to shoot 1000 yards with my .22. :) I am already aiming 27-30 feet high (depending on ammo) just to shoot 300 yards! Then calculating wind speed and bullet travel time makes me have to aim even further off target. Boy do I love mil dots. :)
Good point on casings not being available. Just to make it clear, I am not wanting (yet - wink wink) a rifle built for 1000+ yard shots. I just want a sub moa rifle that if I get the chance, has the capability of making a 1000 yard shot. I do understand this will not happen overnight. Thats not what I am expecting. I expect this to take many years. I am just starting now. For fun I will "build" a range on paper; choose a distance, wind(s), altitude, placement on earth, temperature, weather, my elevation compared to that of target, target speed if moving, etc. etc. etc... and try to figure balistics for a 308. I AM BY NO MEANS A MASTER AT THIS!!!! I just do this for fun to try and learn how it's done. I am a firm believer in "practice makes perfect", and I have to start somewhere.
My reason for choosing 308: popular and cheap enough to still use for "plinking", still is quite accurate, easy to get balistics for, stuff like that. If you know of a better round that fits those descriptions, let me know.
Hope I don't come off as a dumb young kid wanting the impossible by way of impossible means. I truly do want to learn. This is a passion I have had for several years (just ask my family and friends) and am just now starting to really act on it. I have seriously either checked out from the library, borrowed, or bought every book I could find on the subject. I am NOT a "video game sniper" who thinks he knows how its done. Actually, I hate games like Call Of Duty because they are so unrealistic. Especially the sniping. You do not just line up a target in the scope, pull a trigger, and have a bullet travel in a straight line and hit the target instantly. Thats not how it works.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/05/2013 at 00:09
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My goal is not to look cool to anyone. It is a personal goal that I set a long time ago. Not to be cool, but to have done something that is hard to do. Just look at sports. Yes, there are those who just try to look cool, but then there are those who just want to be the best they can be at what they enjoy. I enjoy LR shooting, and want to be good at it. Thank you in advance to all those who help me arrive at my destination! :)
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