New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - why you can't get one scope for both prairie dogs
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

why you can't get one scope for both prairie dogs

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2011 at 20:07
cruft View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: November/20/2005
Status: Offline
Points: 88
As of today, with today's magnification ranges on scopes, it is a circle that can't be squared.  PDs are usually small and far away while coyotes are large, fast and may be extremely close.  PDs allow much time for set up while coyotes will come as a surprise.  Many use shotguns for coyotes.  With PDs scope magnification usually tops out at around 14x due to mirage.  Coyotes need little magnification, both eyes open and the hunting experience between the two are so vastly different as to lead one to wonder if the inital question has been throught thru.  IMHO while the calibre can be used for both PDs and coyotes the rifle and the scope should be dedicated.  Once the 1.5-14x scope comes on the market then it's time to jump on that wagon.  Of course that still leaves the rifle.  How fast can you bring the rifle to bear on the 15 yard coyote with a 26-30" barrel.  This is where glass quality enters as the improvement in resolution & contrast will allow seamingly impossible ranges at lower magnifications.  So welcome to the world of the Uber Scopes.  Never, ever look thru them or start saving.Soap Box
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2011 at 20:10
helo18 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2006
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 5145
Interesting.  I use a 3-12 on a 26" barrel on my 22-250 and haven't have any problems hunting whether it is pds or a yote at 15 yards.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2011 at 20:37
03mossy View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/03/2010
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 142
I have been mauling over the same problem for a while. I just ordered a 6.5-20x40 for my 22-250. My thinking was this... I will be pulling the trigger on that gun probley 1500 times this year, 1000 at PD's, 495 at targets and other range fun, and 5 times on yotes. So yeah I handicapped myself for those 5 shots a year but the rest of the time I will enjoy the extra magnification.

Edited by 03mossy - February/04/2011 at 20:38
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 11:04
SD Dog View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
OT Scratching Post

Joined: February/28/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 4169
Cruft, here are a few that are fairly close to the mag range your looking at

Mil-Dot Bushnell 2.5-16x42 Elite 6500 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - 652164T
  • Matte
  • Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • Tactical Model
  • Rainguard
  • Free Sun Shade w/ Purchase
  • Discontinued closeout price
$549.95

This one is being closed out.  Good low end and top end is more than enough.  Different configurations available too.

What about the Minox?

Minox 3-15x42 ZA5 Riflescope
Stock # - 66021
  • Matte
  • BDC
  • 1"
$528.95

It is not as low as the 6500 Bushnell or down to 1.5x but if a yote pops out at 15 yds will appear like it is at 5 which isn't much of a difference.

Probably the best in that range if $$ was no object would be the Swaro or Mark scopes, but then you are out of my yard.


Swarovski 2.5-15x44 Z6 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SWA59419
  • Matte
  • BRH
  • 30mm
$2,198.95
 or

Illuminated Ballistic Reticle Swarovski 2.5-15x44 Z6i 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SWA59437
  • Matte
  • Illuminated Ballistic Reticle
  • 30mm
$2,588.95


Is it easy to swing a 24" -26" heavy barreled varmint rig?  It isn't as easy as swinging a shotgun, but it can be done.  I have had p-dogs pop up 6-8' from me.  Didn't use my rifle, but the .22 pistol worked great.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 11:18
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Online
Points: 12483
I'm with SD Dog; you definitely can have one scope for both.  The ones he recommends are good choices.

Or, any 2.5-10X or 3-12X or 4-14X/16X with a multi-point reticle will work very well. 

I use all of the above magnification ranges for both PD's and coyotes with no problems.  I prefer having illumination as well for low light and night predator hunting, but that isn't an absolute necessity, depending on the type of coyote hunting you do.  It certainly isn't needed for PD shooting, which is a daytime activity. 

I just wouldn't go over about 4X on the low end, and there's no need to go above 16X on the high end.


Edited by RifleDude - February/05/2011 at 11:19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 11:32
HOLLOWPOINT View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: November/24/2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 11:40
SD Dog View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
OT Scratching Post

Joined: February/28/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 4169
Yeah, that one HP.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 11:45
neilbilly View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/07/2010
Location: Sweeny TX
Status: Offline
Points: 999
Why not just get 2 different gun and scope combos for 2 very different types of hunting? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 12:36
tman1965 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: July/20/2010
Location: South Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 1456
Originally posted by neilbilly neilbilly wrote:

Why not just get 2 different gun and scope combos for 2 very different types of hunting? 
Ditto
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 13:04
SD Dog View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
OT Scratching Post

Joined: February/28/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 4169
You absolutely can/could if you wanted to.  Personally, I don't.  I like using the same setup so I know near or far where I'm at.  Having a scope that offers both low and high magnification is one great asset.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 17:02
cruft View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: November/20/2005
Status: Offline
Points: 88
This canard about have one scope to do two vary different tasks just doesn't hold up.  First do you actually know any semi-serious gunman who has ONLY one rifle?  Second would your wife clean the house if she was Scarlet Johansen?  We have "the lust of the eyes" being men and all.  As for me one guy here has a Dakota Model 10 with case coloring as a signature.  This should be banned from the site as "porn".  And please stop sending links to Swarovski scopes as why torture a brother?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 17:11
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9722
If you have money to spend I can comfortably recommend a couple of March scopes I tested last year: 2.5-25x42 with SFP reticle and 3-24x42 with FFP reticle.

In the sub-$1K range, Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5-16x42 is a nice and versatile option as are a few 3-15x50 scopes like the Minox ZA5 and Weaver Ultimate Slam.

Later in the year I expect Sightron to bring some scope onto the market that have 7x erectors.  They had 1-7x24 at SHOT and I suspect they will bring out more configurations based ont he same erector system.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 17:40
cruft View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: November/20/2005
Status: Offline
Points: 88
Ilya,  IOR seems to have some scopes coming to market allowing dual use having both the glass (Schott), wide magnification range,  price points and the reticles.  My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews.  Before you jump on me you would be less than human if you could avoid such a thing.  Once dependent on product or access this is unavoidable unless you're very wealthy and altruistic.  I'm not your critic and look expectantly for your name.  This should be a fabulous year for product all that remains are enough shooters with jobs to fill the order books. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 17:55
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9722
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Ilya,  IOR seems to have some scopes coming to market allowing dual use having both the glass (Schott), wide magnification range,  price points and the reticles.  My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews.  Before you jump on me you would be less than human if you could avoid such a thing.  Once dependent on product or access this is unavoidable unless you're very wealthy and altruistic.  I'm not your critic and look expectantly for your name.  This should be a fabulous year for product all that remains are enough shooters with jobs to fill the order books. 

I am not going to jump on you.  It is really quite simple: I do the best I can and if you think I am lying, you do not have to read my articles.  Just for the record, I get accused of being a liar or fanboy or paid advertiser or ... (fill in the blank) fairly regularly, so you are not original.  I do this because I enjoy doing it.  I do have a day job (for this company), so I do not rely on my writing to pay the bills.

On IOR: they have a 1-10x26 coming out that has two reticle: SFP and FFP.  We'll see how it goes.  With any new and complicated design, I try to take a "wait and see" approach.  All too often, first generation of a new product does not have all the kink worked out.

As a side note: what is the deal with pre-occupation on the source of raw glass? It is easily one of the least important reasons to like or dislike a scope.  You can make a great scope out of Schott glass or an exceedingly crappy scope out of Schott glass.  Moreover, there are other companies out there that make raw optical glass that is just as good.  It really comes down to speccing it right.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 20:21
Jon A View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: March/14/2008
Location: Everett, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 656
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews. 

You know, if you're going to accuse a guy of such a thing you could at least step up to the plate with an example of something you found in one of his reviews that you believe to be inaccurate.  In other words, an example of such "color."  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2011 at 23:38
tman1965 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: July/20/2010
Location: South Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 1456
I'm not going to jump on you either,... but I am going to defend ILya. I try pretty hard not to miss any of his articles because his opinions are based only on facts and only on products he has personally tested.
He is the most qualified Individual I know of to render such opinions and since he does not recieve any compensation for his troubles, other than our support and appreciation, I do my level best to make sure he knows those efforts are not in vain!... In fact, I have a simple optics policy... If ILya has not reviewed a particular optic, I simply do not purchase said optic. I figure if it's not worth his time to review, then it certainly is not worth my money to buy it. If you read enough of his articles to know his character, then you know the man is not going to lie to you, or for you. I for one, will not dis respect him by doubting his morals or his integrity.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2011 at 12:33
neilbilly View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: February/07/2010
Location: Sweeny TX
Status: Offline
Points: 999

I'll echo Tman, ILya is an honest man who knows more about optics than anyone I've ever heard of. He freely shares his thoughts and opinions here, and he has never displayed any brand loyalty or favoritism. If you give him a budget and an intended use, he points you in the direction of what the best fit is and if he hasn't played with one, he'll tell you. Questioning his ability to be impartial will only draw the ire of those of us who have read his reviews and posts. "which is a good sized number of folks to have irritated"


I've purchased 3 different products from 3 different manufacturers all on recommendation from ILya and am really pleased with all of them. I wasn't steered towards another product, or advised to up my budget. I owe him a firm handshake and a cold beverage of his choice if I ever meet him. 



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2011 at 13:02
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Online
Points: 12483
I've met Ilya at last year's SHOT and have talked to him over the phone numerous times, so I know firsthand that he has no problem at all telling manufacturers what he does and doesn't like about their products.  I witnessed him point out faults in optics in front of reps, and some of them didn't appreciate his critique.  I've discussed a variety of topics with him, including over a few beers, and I can tell you his integrity is something that's very important to him and isn't for sale.  He is a very analytical, detail-oriented person.  I assure you without a doubt that he calls it exactly as he sees it, would never make a recommendation for any product he hasn't thoroughly evaluated, and would never give you anything but the honest truth as he sees it.  He has absolutely nothing to gain from reviewing any product favorably.  If you ever met him, you would realize this pretty quickly.  He has forgotten more about optics than any other 5 people I know combined will ever know. 

That's the truth, and you can bank on it as surely as the sun will rise in the east in the morning.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2011 at 21:24
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 21919
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Ilya,  IOR seems to have some scopes coming to market allowing dual use having both the glass (Schott), wide magnification range,  price points and the reticles.  My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews.  Before you jump on me you would be less than human if you could avoid such a thing.  Once dependent on product or access this is unavoidable unless you're very wealthy and altruistic.  I'm not your critic and look expectantly for your name.  This should be a fabulous year for product all that remains are enough shooters with jobs to fill the order books. 

Loco whatever dude

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2011 at 21:59
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Offline
Points: 2170
I have read this post twice and do not know what the original question was.

http://swfa.com/Minox-2-10x50-ZA5-Riflescope-P48158.aspx would be my suggestion for a dual purpose dog rifle.

The reticle would work on dogs past 400...

Side Note:

Ilya please continue it is what you do and how you do it.

You are a man who is unquestionable in moral consciousness and character.

This is an inappropriate use of the word.

Fraternization or turning people into brothers is not what Ilya does he rather points out flaws in product and helps the manufactures to see the error of their ways or quality issues or tweaks they could make to their product in a brotherly fashion.

He is the very essence of a man of integrity and sound judgment.

To use any call outs or language that challenges him on this forum about being biased or unprofessional or in any arena is uncalled for and will not be accepted or taken lightly.

I can get this off my chest have been needing to for years, I would have thought about fraternization with one officer man oh man oh man (lightning strike)  She was doing it for the GI Bill and was in Logistics.  I remember Just Blushing around her...

Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - February/06/2011 at 22:50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2011 at 09:43
SD Dog View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
OT Scratching Post

Joined: February/28/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 4169
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Ilya,  IOR seems to have some scopes coming to market allowing dual use having both the glass (Schott), wide magnification range,  price points and the reticles.  My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews.  Before you jump on me you would be less than human if you could avoid such a thing.  Once dependent on product or access this is unavoidable unless you're very wealthy and altruistic.  I'm not your critic and look expectantly for your name.  This should be a fabulous year for product all that remains are enough shooters with jobs to fill the order books. 


Could a man be tainted?  Possible, however when you have to return scopes and there is no check in the mail there is less of a chance of it happening.  Ilya is a great asset considering what he does.  He is not on anyone's payroll, is highly knowledgeable about what he is doing and why, and he is articulate enough to convey what he has found to the rest of us in a useful format.  In reading his reviews, I find no favoritism to brand names and most reviews indicate that the scopes used were returned to the manufacturer or dealer so no "booty" is part of the deal.  I appreciate his work and the time he puts into it. 


Edited by SD Dog - February/14/2011 at 12:34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2011 at 20:44
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 15438
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

Ilya,  IOR seems to have some scopes coming to market allowing dual use having both the glass (Schott), wide magnification range,  price points and the reticles.  My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews.  Before you jump on me you would be less than human if you could avoid such a thing.  Once dependent on product or access this is unavoidable unless you're very wealthy and altruistic.  I'm not your critic and look expectantly for your name.  This should be a fabulous year for product all that remains are enough shooters with jobs to fill the order books. 
 
ILya is a person of integrity and principle.  He also an accomplished EO engineer.  I've lead teams of EO engineers who did not command as much knowledge as ILya.  To suggest that he would taint (color) a review out of a minimal relationship with manufacturers, is a crude, malicious, uninformed insult.  You speak of things you have no knowledge of.  That implies foolishness.
 
"Back off, buckwheat..."
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2011 at 14:21
3_tens View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2007
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 5885
My reputation here is one of sarcasm and suspicion. I will say that Ilya produces the most accurate and scientific reviews of anyone that is putting out reviews. I don't think he receives pay from anyone other than the praise of his peers.  I have never found any bias in a review that he has produced. His methods of testing can be duplicated with repeatable results. This can not be said for the majority of writers of the shooting rags. Writers that have to do a good review or not get published because of advertising dollars.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2011 at 15:17
tpcollins View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: January/12/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 256
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

With PDs scope magnification usually tops out at around 14x due to mirage.
 
This is where glass quality enters as the improvement in resolution & contrast will allow seamingly impossible ranges at lower magnifications.
 
 
This is my dilema as well. For whatever reason, I thought I needed more magnification for my .243 so I went with a Sightron 4-16x42 for coyotes.  Now I just bought a Tikka T3 Lite in .204 for woodchucks and smaller varmints.   I'm thinking better glass is paramount for small critters so I'm leaning towards the Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 - if my budget will allow it.


Edited by tpcollins - March/18/2011 at 15:18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/18/2011 at 15:42
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Online
Points: 4107
Originally posted by cruft cruft wrote:

This canard about have one scope to do two vary different tasks just doesn't hold up.  First do you actually know any semi-serious gunman who has ONLY one rifle? 
Well, most of your other points have been commented on, so I'll tackle this one I guess. At the current time, I have no less than a dozen rifles at my disposal. Yet 99% of my shooting is done with ONLY ONE RIFLE. Yes it's true that it happens to be my favorite rifle, but I also chose it to be the one that I would be familiar with any time, anywhere, under any condition. If I'm going to shoot anything of reason with that rifle inside of 800 yards....... I expect a hit. There is no way I could learn all of my rifles that well, and keep them all straight under pressure of hunting. Maybe to you this makes me not a serious rifleman, but to me, I say beware the man with one rifle. He just may know how to use it.
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "why you can't get one scope for both prairie dogs"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Prairie Dog scope 03mossy Rifle Scopes 33
Fixed power prairie dog scope? bunkerdog Varmint Scopes 20
scope for prairie dogs? slickest Varmint Scopes 14
Selecting scope for Prairie Dogs safari1 Varmint Scopes 5 10/9/2004 9:27:38 AM
Spotting scope for prairie dogs VinMidWest Spotting Scopes 1 9/7/2005 10:31:36 AM
Help me choose scope for Prairie Dog gun ISUDogger Varmint Scopes 1 3/2/2006 11:37:32 AM
need a prairie dog scope...... buckaroo Rifle Scopes 6
Best fixed power for prairie dogs ? Hammer1 Varmint Scopes 41
Mildot reticles for prairie dogs ? Hammer1 Varmint Scopes 27
airguns and prairie dogs... zingpow General Hunting 7


This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.