why you can't get one scope for both prairie dogs

As of today, with today's magnification ranges on scopes, it is a circle that can't be squared.  PDs are usually small and far away while coyotes are large, fast and may be extremely close.  PDs allow much time for set up while coyotes will come as a surprise.  Many use shotguns for coyotes.  With PDs scope magnification usually tops out at around 14x due to mirage.  Coyotes need little magnification, both eyes open and the hunting experience between the two are so vastly different as to lead one to wonder if the inital question has been throught thru.  IMHO while the calibre can be used for both PDs and coyotes the rifle and the scope should be dedicated.  Once the 1.5-14x scope comes on the market then it's time to jump on that wagon.  Of course that still leaves the rifle.  How fast can you bring the rifle to bear on the 15 yard coyote with a 26-30" barrel.  This is where glass quality enters as the improvement in resolution & contrast will allow seamingly impossible ranges at lower magnifications.  So welcome to the world of the Uber Scopes.  Never, ever look thru them or start saving.

Interesting.  I use a 3-12 on a 26" barrel on my 22-250 and haven't have any problems hunting whether it is pds or a yote at 15 yards.

I have been mauling over the same problem for a while. I just ordered a 6.5-20x40 for my 22-250. My thinking was this... I will be pulling the trigger on that gun probley 1500 times this year, 1000 at PD's, 495 at targets and other range fun, and 5 times on yotes. So yeah I handicapped myself for those 5 shots a year but the rest of the time I will enjoy the extra magnification.

Edited by 03mossy - February/04/2011 at 20:38

Cruft, here are a few that are fairly close to the mag range your looking at

Bushnell 2.5-16x42 Elite 6500 30mm Rifle Scope Stock # - 652164T Matte Mil-Dot 30mm Side Focus Tactical Model Rainguard Free Sun Shade w/ Purchase Discontinued closeout price

$549.95

This one is being closed out.  Good low end and top end is more than enough.  Different configurations available too.

What about the Minox?

Minox 3-15x42 ZA5 Riflescope Stock # - 66021 Matte BDC 1"

$528.95

It is not as low as the 6500 Bushnell or down to 1.5x but if a yote pops out at 15 yds will appear like it is at 5 which isn't much of a difference.

Probably the best in that range if $$ was no object would be the Swaro or Mark scopes, but then you are out of my yard.

	Swarovski 2.5-15x44 Z6 30mm Riflescope Stock # - SWA59419 Matte BRH 30mm	$2,198.95

 or

Swarovski 2.5-15x44 Z6i 30mm Riflescope Stock # - SWA59437 Matte Illuminated Ballistic Reticle 30mm

$2,588.95

Is it easy to swing a 24" -26" heavy barreled varmint rig?  It isn't as easy as swinging a shotgun, but it can be done.  I have had p-dogs pop up 6-8' from me.  Didn't use my rifle, but the .22 pistol worked great.

I'm with SD Dog; you definitely can have one scope for both.  The ones he recommends are good choices.

Or, any 2.5-10X or 3-12X or 4-14X/16X with a multi-point reticle will work very well. 

I use all of the above magnification ranges for both PD's and coyotes with no problems.  I prefer having illumination as well for low light and night predator hunting, but that isn't an absolute necessity, depending on the type of coyote hunting you do.  It certainly isn't needed for PD shooting, which is a daytime activity. 

I just wouldn't go over about 4X on the low end, and there's no need to go above 16X on the high end.


Edited by RifleDude - February/05/2011 at 11:19

http://www.deon.co.jp/march/2.5x-25x42_hunting.htm

Yeah, that one HP.

Why not just get 2 different gun and scope combos for 2 very different types of hunting? 

neilbilly wrote: Why not just get 2 different gun and scope combos for 2 very different types of hunting?

You absolutely can/could if you wanted to.  Personally, I don't.  I like using the same setup so I know near or far where I'm at.  Having a scope that offers both low and high magnification is one great asset.

This canard about have one scope to do two vary different tasks just doesn't hold up.  First do you actually know any semi-serious gunman who has ONLY one rifle?  Second would your wife clean the house if she was Scarlet Johansen?  We have "the lust of the eyes" being men and all.  As for me one guy here has a Dakota Model 10 with case coloring as a signature.  This should be banned from the site as "porn".  And please stop sending links to Swarovski scopes as why torture a brother?

If you have money to spend I can comfortably recommend a couple of March scopes I tested last year: 2.5-25x42 with SFP reticle and 3-24x42 with FFP reticle.

Ilya,  IOR seems to have some scopes coming to market allowing dual use having both the glass (Schott), wide magnification range,  price points and the reticles.  My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews.  Before you jump on me you would be less than human if you could avoid such a thing.  Once dependent on product or access this is unavoidable unless you're very wealthy and altruistic.  I'm not your critic and look expectantly for your name.  This should be a fabulous year for product all that remains are enough shooters with jobs to fill the order books. 

cruft wrote: Ilya,  IOR seems to have some scopes coming to market allowing dual use having both the glass (Schott), wide magnification range,  price points and the reticles.  My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews.  Before you jump on me you would be less than human if you could avoid such a thing.  Once dependent on product or access this is unavoidable unless you're very wealthy and altruistic.  I'm not your critic and look expectantly for your name.  This should be a fabulous year for product all that remains are enough shooters with jobs to fill the order books.

cruft wrote: My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews.

You know, if you're going to accuse a guy of such a thing you could at least step up to the plate with an example of something you found in one of his reviews that you believe to be inaccurate.  In other words, an example of such "color."  

I'm not going to jump on you either,... but I am going to defend ILya. I try pretty hard not to miss any of his articles because his opinions are based only on facts and only on products he has personally tested.

I'll echo Tman, ILya is an honest man who knows more about optics than anyone I've ever heard of. He freely shares his thoughts and opinions here, and he has never displayed any brand loyalty or favoritism. If you give him a budget and an intended use, he points you in the direction of what the best fit is and if he hasn't played with one, he'll tell you. Questioning his ability to be impartial will only draw the ire of those of us who have read his reviews and posts. "which is a good sized number of folks to have irritated"

I've purchased 3 different products from 3 different manufacturers all on recommendation from ILya and am really pleased with all of them. I wasn't steered towards another product, or advised to up my budget. I owe him a firm handshake and a cold beverage of his choice if I ever meet him. 

I've met Ilya at last year's SHOT and have talked to him over the phone numerous times, so I know firsthand that he has no problem at all telling manufacturers what he does and doesn't like about their products.  I witnessed him point out faults in optics in front of reps, and some of them didn't appreciate his critique.  I've discussed a variety of topics with him, including over a few beers, and I can tell you his integrity is something that's very important to him and isn't for sale.  He is a very analytical, detail-oriented person.  I assure you without a doubt that he calls it exactly as he sees it, would never make a recommendation for any product he hasn't thoroughly evaluated, and would never give you anything but the honest truth as he sees it.  He has absolutely nothing to gain from reviewing any product favorably.  If you ever met him, you would realize this pretty quickly.  He has forgotten more about optics than any other 5 people I know combined will ever know. 

That's the truth, and you can bank on it as surely as the sun will rise in the east in the morning.

cruft wrote: Ilya,  IOR seems to have some scopes coming to market allowing dual use having both the glass (Schott), wide magnification range,  price points and the reticles.  My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews.  Before you jump on me you would be less than human if you could avoid such a thing.  Once dependent on product or access this is unavoidable unless you're very wealthy and altruistic.  I'm not your critic and look expectantly for your name.  This should be a fabulous year for product all that remains are enough shooters with jobs to fill the order books.

whatever dude

I have read this post twice and do not know what the original question was.

http://swfa.com/Minox-2-10x50-ZA5-Riflescope-P48158.aspx would be my suggestion for a dual purpose dog rifle.

The reticle would work on dogs past 400...

Side Note:

Ilya please continue it is what you do and how you do it.

You are a man who is unquestionable in moral consciousness and character.

This is an inappropriate use of the word.

Fraternization or turning people into brothers is not what Ilya does he rather points out flaws in product and helps the manufactures to see the error of their ways or quality issues or tweaks they could make to their product in a brotherly fashion.

He is the very essence of a man of integrity and sound judgment.

To use any call outs or language that challenges him on this forum about being biased or unprofessional or in any arena is uncalled for and will not be accepted or taken lightly.

I can get this off my chest have been needing to for years, I would have thought about fraternization with one officer man oh man oh man (lightning strike)  She was doing it for the GI Bill and was in Logistics.  I remember Just Blushing around her...

Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - February/06/2011 at 22:50

cruft wrote: Ilya,  IOR seems to have some scopes coming to market allowing dual use having both the glass (Schott), wide magnification range,  price points and the reticles.  My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews.  Before you jump on me you would be less than human if you could avoid such a thing.  Once dependent on product or access this is unavoidable unless you're very wealthy and altruistic.  I'm not your critic and look expectantly for your name.  This should be a fabulous year for product all that remains are enough shooters with jobs to fill the order books.

Could a man be tainted?  Possible, however when you have to return scopes and there is no check in the mail there is less of a chance of it happening.  Ilya is a great asset considering what he does.  He is not on anyone's payroll, is highly knowledgeable about what he is doing and why, and he is articulate enough to convey what he has found to the rest of us in a useful format.  In reading his reviews, I find no favoritism to brand names and most reviews indicate that the scopes used were returned to the manufacturer or dealer so no "booty" is part of the deal.  I appreciate his work and the time he puts into it. 


Edited by SD Dog - February/14/2011 at 12:34

cruft wrote: Ilya,  IOR seems to have some scopes coming to market allowing dual use having both the glass (Schott), wide magnification range,  price points and the reticles.  My concern is that your fraternization with the producers lead to coloring of reviews.  Before you jump on me you would be less than human if you could avoid such a thing.  Once dependent on product or access this is unavoidable unless you're very wealthy and altruistic.  I'm not your critic and look expectantly for your name.  This should be a fabulous year for product all that remains are enough shooters with jobs to fill the order books.

My reputation here is one of sarcasm and suspicion. I will say that Ilya produces the most accurate and scientific reviews of anyone that is putting out reviews. I don't think he receives pay from anyone other than the praise of his peers.  I have never found any bias in a review that he has produced. His methods of testing can be duplicated with repeatable results. This can not be said for the majority of writers of the shooting rags. Writers that have to do a good review or not get published because of advertising dollars.

cruft wrote: With PDs scope magnification usually tops out at around 14x due to mirage.   This is where glass quality enters as the improvement in resolution & contrast will allow seamingly impossible ranges at lower magnifications.

cruft wrote: This canard about have one scope to do two vary different tasks just doesn't hold up.  First do you actually know any semi-serious gunman who has ONLY one rifle?

Well, most of your other points have been commented on, so I'll tackle this one I guess. At the current time, I have no less than a dozen rifles at my disposal. Yet 99% of my shooting is done with ONLY ONE RIFLE. Yes it's true that it happens to be my favorite rifle, but I also chose it to be the one that I would be familiar with any time, anywhere, under any condition. If I'm going to shoot anything of reason with that rifle inside of 800 yards....... I expect a hit. There is no way I could learn all of my rifles that well, and keep them all straight under pressure of hunting. Maybe to you this makes me not a serious rifleman, but to me, I say beware the man with one rifle. He just may know how to use it.