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You cannot imagine how much I hate this...

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Kickboxer View Drop Down
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    Posted: June/06/2019 at 21:16
I have to buy a new binocular...

Conditions: Distance: over 100 yards, Heavy clouds: rain imminent, Temperature: 75degF, Target:  hawk sitting in a tree with no leaves (dead branch on a live tree) about 100 feet alt.  I have a 10x50 Nikon ACTION that has served me extremely well for 20 years.  However, I did not have enough resolution to make out the markings sufficiently to determine what kind of hawk it was.  I could not tell if it was a red-shouldered or red-tailed hawk.  I got my CZ700 with Leatherwood Hi-Lux Phenom 5-30 with a tripod out and sighted on the hawk (he sat in the tree for over an hour) and could determine that he was a red-tailed hawk.  (Red-shouldered and red-tailed have very similar characteristics... especially when the world is dim) My Nikon let me down.  I need better glass.  I am not a binocular fan, but use at need.  Now, I need to be able to see detail up to 225 yards, FINE resolution, minimum CA.  
I've already told myself "I told you so"... I've intentionally tried to never keep up on binoculars and that brings me to this.  
So, I want great depth, no CA(absolute minimum), wide FOV, no distortion, great resolution... MAYBE IS(my wife really likes IS), 10x minimum, probably 12x Max... $2500.00 max, but would love to go less.  

I go to a couple of the shops here and look through binoculars every now and then.  Mostly I'm unimpressed and when unimpressed don't commit to memory.  Swarovski always knocks my socks off, some Zeiss does... I've not seen many "lesser" brands that impress me more than my Nikon.  
I"m open to suggestions.  This is not an emergency purchase, perhaps I can find some in the area that I can try out.  
Ideas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 01:20
Get a Meopta Meostar 10x42HD.  It will cost you around $1k and do everything you want to do.

If you would rather have a set of big eyes to use off of a tripod, get a 15x56 Meostar.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 06:28
Why all the angst over something so innocuous as binoculars? Were you repeatedly beaten with a binocular as a child?

They are tools that serve an important function that other types of optics cannot duplicate. Do you BG Hunt in a variety of environs or plan to start? If so, binos are almost essential.

The Meopta Meostars Ilya recommended are excellent. However, I don’t believe they are distortion-free. I believe they incorporate a moderate amount of pincushion distortion just like most binoculars posses, but I could be mistaken. Are you absolutely certain you want “no distortion?” Optics companies intentionally incorporate some pincushion distortion into most of their bino images so that the world looks more natural while panning, without making you dizzy in the process (the so-called “rolling ball” or “globe” effect). Binos that are designed with a perfectly flat field are nice for stationary viewing, but for use where you do a lot of searching and panning, the “rolling ball” effect bothers some people. I can take it or leave it. I notice the globe affect with flat field binos, but it doesn’t really bother me much. Conversely, most of the time in actual use, I also don’t notice slight pincushion distortion either unless I’m intentionally looking for it against images with lots of straight horizontal and vertical lines, like a brick wall. The natural world has few such straight lines.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 08:10
10x42:  Meopta Meostar HD, Zeiss Conquest HD, Nikon HG, Vortex Razor HD, GPO HD, and Tract Toric UHD are all way better than a Nikon Action.   The Toric is as good or better than anything in this group.

12x50:  Meopta Meostar HD, Tract Toric UHD are both fantastic

A good, used Swaro Swarovision 10x42 has no peer in my opinion and can be found under your budget.   I have had ll of the above  on  tripods at one time or another so my opinion is from personal use.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 09:30
I haven't tried anything from GPO HD or Tract Toric series, but I have used binos from the remaining group you recommend and agree they are all good choices. From what I'm hearing, evidently you can add Maven to that list.

I have become such a fan of the 8X32 configuration due to compact, light form factor and reasonable compromise between magnification and objective size that I haven't looked at or considered buying any more binos once I got my Leica Ultravid HD 8X32. The "upper mid" range binos have gotten so good nowadays that it's becoming more difficult for me to recommend or justify the price tag of the so-called "alpha" class binos; the $1K class binos are nipping at the heels of the alpha class stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 10:12
Get the Leica with the RF in them.  If you got that to spend might as well get one that has an RF built in. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 12:50
If all he needs is to stare at bird every once in a while, I would get the Meostar and save some money.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 14:12
Thank you.  I love Meopta's stuff... don't know why but I never thought of it. Much obliged.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 15:34
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Why all the angst over something so innocuous as binoculars? Were you repeatedly beaten with a binocular as a child?

They are tools that serve an important function that other types of optics cannot duplicate. Do you BG Hunt in a variety of environs or plan to start? If so, binos are almost essential.

The Meopta Meostars Ilya recommended are excellent. However, I don’t believe they are distortion-free. I believe they incorporate a moderate amount of pincushion distortion just like most binoculars posses, but I could be mistaken. Are you absolutely certain you want “no distortion?” Optics companies intentionally incorporate some pincushion distortion into most of their bino images so that the world looks more natural while panning, without making you dizzy in the process (the so-called “rolling ball” or “globe” effect). Binos that are designed with a perfectly flat field are nice for stationary viewing, but for use where you do a lot of searching and panning, the “rolling ball” effect bothers some people. I can take it or leave it. I notice the globe affect with flat field binos, but it doesn’t really bother me much. Conversely, most of the time in actual use, I also don’t notice slight pincushion distortion either unless I’m intentionally looking for it against images with lots of straight horizontal and vertical lines, like a brick wall. The natural world has few such straight lines.


"No distortion"... figure of speech... but I thought the Porro-prism was supposed to be virtually distortion free... as much as possible. Could be mistaken.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 15:38
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

10x42:  Meopta Meostar HD, Zeiss Conquest HD, Nikon HG, Vortex Razor HD, GPO HD, and Tract Toric UHD are all way better than a Nikon Action.   The Toric is as good or better than anything in this group.

12x50:  Meopta Meostar HD, Tract Toric UHD are both fantastic

A good, used Swaro Swarovision 10x42 has no peer in my opinion and can be found under your budget.   I have had ll of the above  on  tripods at one time or another so my opinion is from personal use.   

Nikon Action was a gift.  I just never really had a need for better until now.  I've been spending more time watching the myriad of birds that surround my house and have found the Nikon insufficient.  I appreciate your suggestions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 15:49
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If all he needs is to stare at bird every once in a while, I would get the Meostar and save some money.

ILya

Well, not the ONLY reason... but I have been doing that a lot more lately.  Who knew I would ever be a "bird watcher".  
That sounds pathetic...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 16:24
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Why all the angst over something so innocuous as binoculars? Were you repeatedly beaten with a binocular as a child?

They are tools that serve an important function that other types of optics cannot duplicate. Do you BG Hunt in a variety of environs or plan to start? If so, binos are almost essential.

The Meopta Meostars Ilya recommended are excellent. However, I don’t believe they are distortion-free. I believe they incorporate a moderate amount of pincushion distortion just like most binoculars posses, but I could be mistaken. Are you absolutely certain you want “no distortion?” Optics companies intentionally incorporate some pincushion distortion into most of their bino images so that the world looks more natural while panning, without making you dizzy in the process (the so-called “rolling ball” or “globe” effect). Binos that are designed with a perfectly flat field are nice for stationary viewing, but for use where you do a lot of searching and panning, the “rolling ball” effect bothers some people. I can take it or leave it. I notice the globe affect with flat field binos, but it doesn’t really bother me much. Conversely, most of the time in actual use, I also don’t notice slight pincushion distortion either unless I’m intentionally looking for it against images with lots of straight horizontal and vertical lines, like a brick wall. The natural world has few such straight lines.


"No distortion"... figure of speech... but I thought the Porro-prism was supposed to be virtually distortion free... as much as possible. Could be mistaken.


The prism type does not really have much to do with distortion, all though because of the difference in objective separation, we perceive distortion a little differently with roof vs porro binos.  It is not a big difference though.  Distortion characteristics are mostly dialed in to a particular requirement by the objectives.  

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 16:41
What do you have for a spotting scope, you might want to tripod mount something with more power for a close look.  Personally I'm not fond of binoculars because of my glasses where I can tolerate a monocular or spotting scope better.   Ive been wanting this for a while I have the 8x HD and like it
Also kind of like this for a beater to drag around with me.  ( not super spendy)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2019 at 20:47
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Why all the angst over something so innocuous as binoculars? Were you repeatedly beaten with a binocular as a child?

They are tools that serve an important function that other types of optics cannot duplicate. Do you BG Hunt in a variety of environs or plan to start? If so, binos are almost essential.

The Meopta Meostars Ilya recommended are excellent. However, I don’t believe they are distortion-free. I believe they incorporate a moderate amount of pincushion distortion just like most binoculars posses, but I could be mistaken. Are you absolutely certain you want “no distortion?” Optics companies intentionally incorporate some pincushion distortion into most of their bino images so that the world looks more natural while panning, without making you dizzy in the process (the so-called “rolling ball” or “globe” effect). Binos that are designed with a perfectly flat field are nice for stationary viewing, but for use where you do a lot of searching and panning, the “rolling ball” effect bothers some people. I can take it or leave it. I notice the globe affect with flat field binos, but it doesn’t really bother me much. Conversely, most of the time in actual use, I also don’t notice slight pincushion distortion either unless I’m intentionally looking for it against images with lots of straight horizontal and vertical lines, like a brick wall. The natural world has few such straight lines.


"No distortion"... figure of speech... but I thought the Porro-prism was supposed to be virtually distortion free... as much as possible. Could be mistaken.


The prism type does not really have much to do with distortion, all though because of the difference in objective separation, we perceive distortion a little differently with roof vs porro binos.  It is not a big difference though.  Distortion characteristics are mostly dialed in to a particular requirement by the objectives.  

ILya
Got it.  Thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2019 at 08:39
This is how you KNOW everything is being monitored... I just an email... a special email to only SELECT individuals... telling me how I can get "Army Ranger-grade" binoculars.  I may have to change directions... how can anybody beat "Army Ranger-grade"???  I think they allow you to see through walls and over-the-horizon.  What an opportunity...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2019 at 01:38
Meopta are extremely good value in my view
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2019 at 14:50
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Get a Meopta Meostar 10x42HD.  It will cost you around $1k and do everything you want to do.

If you would rather have a set of big eyes to use off of a tripod, get a 15x56 Meostar.

ILya

My 10x42 are not HD and I use them daily for birding and critter watching. They are easy to hold and my views are several yards to 200 yards.
I'm sure the 15x56 are very nice. I occasionally use 15x80 Steiners for birding and they work great, too. Having big eyes is a good thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anweis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2019 at 15:22
I've been staring at birds (and occasionally stuff that wanted me dead) for more than 40 years.
I always suggest a 8x rather than a 10x.
The image will be a bit smaller but you will get used to it quickly. The field of view will be larger. Most importantly, you will be able to resolve more details in the image because of less disturbance caused by handshake and heartbeats. Simply put, your brain will understand the image better when you have less handshake or tremor in the image. 
There are many decent binoculars out there these days for $400-$1,000.
When i was a kid, my binoculars were so bad, i learned to identify birds by shape, rather than colors and markings. It served me well later in low light and the Arctic and still does now, when birding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/18/2019 at 21:10
I agree with anweis... with the caveat you're using them handheld. I definitely prefer 8X for all around use where mobility is paramount for the reasons anweis mentioned. I also have a 10X42 and can get along fine with it as well despite my slight preference for 8X. That said, if tripod mounted or otherwise supported in a fixed position, higher mag "big eyes" are pretty useful in certain circumstances.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cbm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2019 at 08:30
I just upgraded in January to some Leica Geovid HD-B 10X42's.
 
I haven't decided yet but I may sell my Leica Ultravid BR 10X42's. If your not in a big hurry, I may be down your way in the fall or definately in January and could get up with you. My Ultravids are in great shape and I have all the original box, storage pouch, and paperwork, no neck strap or lense covers. They have been babied the whole time but are 10-12 years old I think. I don't know what they are worth, but I am guessing $900 or so.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2019 at 12:14
I am interested and not in a big rush.  Thank you for the heads up.  Will keep in touch.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NDhunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2019 at 19:53
Boxer:  Do you work for SWFA ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/30/2019 at 18:08
Originally posted by NDhunter NDhunter wrote:

Boxer:  Do you work for SWFA ?
I don't know what elicits the question, but "negative".  I currently work for DoD, retiring officially in 21 days days.  Last work day is in 19 days. I will not "go back" as a contractor... my retirement will be complete.  I have in the past, refused "participation" in efforts that appeared to me to be "conflict of interest". 

BUT... why do you ask?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/30/2019 at 18:14
So... right now I'm KIND OF leaning toward Zeiss RF... I love Zeiss glass, I need (or just really, really want) LRF, I don't see any negatives.   (get it... SEE any negatives...)
However, I'm still in no rush and still love Meopta "stuff".  But I love Swarovski, Leica, Steiner, some others... too... 
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